IGNATIAN SPIRITUAL EXERCISES TRAINING (ISET)
2023-BLOCK TWO – SESSION 17
RULES FOR DISCERNMENT: FIRST WEEK
Adri-Marie: [00:00:00] Greetings everybody. Wonderful to be with you today. I wonder if you want to take a moment to just look around, just see the different faces just as a way to become more [00:01:00] present. Ah, good day to you all. Welcome to Session 17. We are going to start off with an opening prayer and I’m going to hand over to Brenda for that. Thanks, Brenda.
Brenda: Thank you, Adri-Marie and welcome to everyone. As you know, this morning we are talking about the discernment of spirits and discernment. We’re going to spend some time just listening to the scriptures. So, if you want to turn off your cameras, you’re welcome to do that. You are welcome to just settle back and listen to God for a bit.
I invite you just to pay attention to your body and to notice your breathing. [00:02:00] You don’t need to slow it down or speed it up; just notice.
Be conscious of being present in this moment, in this place, at this time–conscious of God loving you.[00:03:00]
And as you rest in God’s love, you may want to consider what it is that you ask of God tonight. What is that inward grace that you need this morning? Today?
We’re going to use a portion of Psalm 119 as a Lectio Divina.[00:04:00] Listen with me as we listen together. I’m going to read it through twice.
Oh, how I love your friendship.
I walk with you wherever I go.
Your love is the life-giving force of creation[00:05:00]
Imbue us with your living rays of peace and joy for as we surrender ourselves to your living presence, we will be filled with the radiance of love.
As we open our hearts to the spiritual life, we will be filled with wisdom and freedom, ready to serve.
Oh, how glorious are the ways of the Spirit. How wondrous are your works.
The path of love is sure, unhurried and filled with mystery.
How sweet are your words to my taste; [00:06:00] sweeter than honey to my mouth. Through your mind I receive understanding. I no longer take pleasure in my former ways.
Listen again.
Oh, how I love your friendship.
I walk with you wherever I go.
Your love is the life-giving force of creation[00:05:00]
Imbue us with your living rays of peace and joy for as we surrender ourselves to your living presence, we will be filled with the radiance of love.
As we open our hearts to the spiritual life, we will be filled with wisdom and freedom, ready to serve.
Oh, how glorious are the ways of the Spirit. How wondrous are your works.
The path of love is sure, unhurried and filled with mystery.
How sweet are your words to my taste; [00:06:00] sweeter than honey to my mouth. Through your mind I receive understanding. I no longer take pleasure in my former ways.
[00:07:00] [00:08:00] [00:09:00] [00:10:00] [00:11:00] [00:12:00] [00:13:00]
Oh, how I love your friendship.
I walk with you wherever I go.
Your love is the life-giving force of creation
Imbue us with your living rays of peace and joy for as we surrender ourselves to your living presence, we will be filled with the radiance of love.
As we open our hearts to the spiritual life, we will be filled with wisdom and freedom, ready to serve.
Oh, how glorious are the ways of the Spirit. How wondrous are your works.
The path of love is sure, unhurried and filled with [00:14:00] mystery. mystery.
How sweet are your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth. Through your mind I receive understanding. I no longer take pleasure in my former ways.
And so, we draw our attention back into this room, into the meeting. I invite you to turn on your video when you’re ready.
Adri-Marie: Thank you, Brenda. Thank you. What an appropriate Psalm.
Friends, [00:15:00] we are doing rules for discernment applicable for the first week. I always imagine my, draw me into your friendship is like this old leather book of Ignatius where he wrote these little notes as he went along, as he designed these exercises. And so, in my imagination, in your little Ignatius leather book, we are going to be at 314 to 327. You’re gonna jump right to the end. You okay? Three, one, four (314)—just so that you have it there to check every now and then if we’re not talking nonsense.[00:16:00]
I am tonight going to focus on really the practical side of things. How to make these rules so accessible and applicable for you and I’m really going to trust that you’re going to read that text in depth and let it soak over you and see the original text. I’m really going to trust that you’re going to do that work afterwards. My work for tonight, because we have just this time is to make it short, accessible, and practical for you.
Let’s just start with that word rules. So I don’t know how many of you feel super excited when we announced that the session is going to be rules of any kind, but I want you to know that just knowing all the input you’ve received in the first week up to now, and perhaps feeling like, Oh, where do I really [00:17:00] start and all these things I need to hold into account.
These are extra helps and extra tips from Ignatius side to hold close to help us guide. And to be honest, it is super helpful in my own daily life. These are just rules. I would really like to call them aids or helps or top tips from Ignatius. I love the idea of top tips. They are really for friendship and for good decisions.
So, if you have a look at when they talk about Rules for Discernment, there’s really two sets. There are fourteen rules for the first week and eight for the second week. We’re going to focus on the first week, and I’m going to tell you now what it’s about, but if you’re wondering so long, what is the second week really about?
Those eight are going [00:18:00] deeper and deeper about the layers of consolation. Is consolation really consolation, etc. That’s really more applicable when we enter into the second week. So, we’ll cover that when we get there.
The fourteen (14) for the first week is really about the movements that could be happening inside of us and outside of us, both helpful and good movements and both unhelpful movements towards God, away from God. Sometimes it’s inside of us, sometimes there’s forces at play and what can we do about it.
It’s really about all these things from thoughts to emotions; it’s things inside and sometimes we feel there’s outside things influencing us or things placing things in our head. But it’s really about, is it a good one or a bad one? That’s really what it comes down to. Is it good and wholesome and then I [00:19:00] want to cooperate with it and I want to receive it. Is it not that kosher or good? Then I want to reject it and say “No, I’d rather not. I want to move against the enemy.”
So, we’re going to focus on rules, but the focus is on discernment. So, what are these rules for? These helps are for discernment, and I think you have noticed thus far that basically The Exercises is this mini cosmos of discernment.
The Exercises have many names. It’s a school of prayer; it’s for falling in love. But for me, and even in the really practical way in the examen, it really helps me. It created a way of life of discernment for me. And everything Ignatius is putting together—all the graces of things that we’re [00:20:00] asking and the movements, it’s really helping us to notice.
It really boils down to that beautiful question that every human asks after asking, is there a God? And maybe going a little bit further and saying, but how do I know I’m experiencing God? What is God’s will and how do I then cooperate with it? Discernment is really about noticing God’s activity and joining it. I love it because, Ignatius is taking into consideration all of life. Every detail matters.
Before we delve into it, I really want to make a caveat note on the side. We might encounter language today that you’re not comfortable with, or perhaps you’re saying [00:21:00] finally we’re speaking about the bad spirits.
Some of you might be like, what? Why are we suddenly speaking about bad spirits and what is meant by that? So, I want to clear the air from the start. Maybe those of you who are more charismatic, it’s your time. You’re like, yeah, finally. Those of you who are from a different stream might be like, no, now I’m really confused. Ignatius is losing me. I’ve never learned about these things.
I want to really start by clarifying what is meant by it, because we’re going to read about the bad spirit or the good spirit. What is really meant by it? I want to start by quoting Mark Thibodeaux. He’s a Jesuit priest, and I think he catches it really nicely. He says, “All of us are guilty of DUI” and that means driving under the influence. He means, all of us are guilty of driving under the [00:22:00] influence of the movements within us that we are hardly aware of. I love that. It’s about figuring out who’s driving the car and are they a trustworthy driver. It’s about the movements that’s anything from the complexities of our motives, our images, our ideas, our attractions, what draws us, what pushes us away, all of these things are meant as spirits.
And of course, there are two parties to it, and I really want you to use the language that feels it lands with you. Every human senses there’s some kind of light and a darkness. For us in this room, we would say, there’s this beautiful, loving God that is collaborating, using so many things to bring [00:23:00] good things in terms of our relationship that’s drawing us to relate with God.
Then there are bad influences and whatever name you feel comfortable in using, whether that is the world or the evil one or the devil or the enemy, but there are two sides, and Ignatius calls it good spirit, meaning the Holy Spirit, God: that collaboration and the bad spirit. So, within today, we’re also going to use that word spirit.
All right, are you okay? Are you with me? Okay. Now we’re gonna delve in—the fourteen (14) Rules for Discernment for the first week. Now, first I want to just show you a quick outline and please know that I’m going to come back to that and color it in for you much better. But [00:24:00] for those of you who also enjoy a bigger picture, that’s important for me to see it from the top.
So, you’ll see this fourteen (14). I call the Rules of Discernment things to help me figure out what’s going on. You might find other ways to describe it that’s helpful for you. I want us to think about three things They’re going to gather together. The first two rules are about which way the person I’m guiding is facing. Remember we’ll get into depth for all of this. Rule three to eleven is really about what are they experiencing and rule twelve to fourteen is what is the bad spirit up to. [00:25:00] If you want to go a little bit deeper. One (1) and two (2) is about orientation, so orientation is literally facing towards or facing away. Rule Three (3 )to eleven (11) is about consolation and desolation. And then, as I say, twelve (12) to fourteen (14) is about the strategies or even the characteristics of the evil Knievel.
A little bit more detail and don’t worry about this detail; it’s coming. Okay, we’re gonna really talk about it in depth, but just for those of you who enjoy a larger picture. One (1) and two (2) are the types of orientation and what each spirit gets up to when we are facing a specific way.
I love rules three (3) to eleven (11) are super helpful. They tell us the definitions of consolation and desolation, tips for what to do when you’re in desolation, why desolation happens and [00:26:00] even some tips for in consolation, and then twelve (12) to fourteen (14), there will be three types that we’re going to talk about. Don’t worry; we’re gonna get into the detail and I’m gonna bring us back to that slide right at the end. So, let’s dive in.
The first two are about orientation, so the way we are facing. Am I facing towards God or am I facing away? Now if I’m repeating myself and things that you know very well, we are not scared of repetition, luckily, as givers of the exercises.
So, there’s three types of orientation. So, the first one is fundamental orientation. That just means every human was created for relationship with God. So, we carry God’s breath of life. Every [00:27:00] fundamental orientation is towards God because we were made in God’s image. God is our creator who delights in us. Operationally means that I’ve made that conscious decision to be facing towards God. I’m making my choices, my actions; I want to have a relationship with God. So, over a long period of time, I’m facing operationally towards God. I’ve decided I want this relationship. I enter into this relationship.
So, we take people through the exercises that are operationally facing God, but then we have immediate orientation. It can be that in this particular moment, even if in general I’m facing towards God, in this particular moment, [00:28:00] I might be so jealous of what my sister is getting and doing, and I am just becoming more bitter and I’m immediately in this moment facing and turning away a little bit. Even if operationally I still am into God; I love God; I’m for relationship—”in this particular moment.”
So, you can imagine if that immediate one becomes just increasing, increasing, and increasing after a long period of time, there might be a breakdown in relationships, but we want to listen. Which way is this person facing? And that’s really more to do with their immediate facing. First, let me say there are two rules—the first one and the second one really operate in the same way: they’re just opposites.
The one spirit is going, “keep going!” And the other spirit is going, “Hmmmm… really?” That’s what I want you to remember. You’re gonna see it [00:29:00] now. When I’m facing away from God, that is my first rule. What would the bad spirit be saying? He is just going, “keep going, it’s okay, keep going,” and the happy spirit might be going, “Hmmmm…really?” But in a super gently, gentle, inviting way—I warned you before and I’m going to really simplify this—so that spirit will be wanting me to rationalize me facing away. I’m going to say keep going. It’s okay.
Let me take an example. Let’s say there’s somebody at work and I’m a married person and I’m starting to flirt with them, and then I’m starting to consider having an affair. So now I’m turning away. I’m obviously [00:30:00] breaking relationships into a sinful type of action. Now the bad spirit might just be saying, “Don’t worry, Adri-Marie it’s just a bit of flirting. Don’t worry. At least you’re not like Susan, you know, She’s already had ten affairs. It’s not that bad. Let’s see. And remember your husband is like this and this.”
So, the bad spirit, when we’re facing away, just says, “Keep going. It’s not that bad. Rationalize it.” Get it? The Holy Spirit will give us a prick of conscience, gentle, kind; “Really, Adri-Marie? Really?”
All right, so the second rule, when I’m facing towards God, let’s say I’m discovering my gifts; I’m moving in my gifts, and maybe I’ve joined some actions and expressions of where I’m living out my gifts and having a sense of flourishing. [00:31:00] The one voice saying, “Keep going.” Which one will say keep going? The good spirit will say, “Hey, keep going.” Encouraging me, strengthening me; evokes just inspiration in me, encouraging me.
The bad spirit will go, “Hmmm…Really, who do you think you are? Are you some kind of saint? Is this really God’s thing? Does God even really care about this?” You can hear that “Hmmmm,” the disruptive voice trying to turn me away causing this anxiousness, the self -examination, even a self-absorption that will cause doubt, disruption, helping me to turn away.
So, I’m hoping that there’s something about a recognition somewhere in your life, because I really do think this is why [00:32:00] this stuff is so good. And I want to say thank you to Ignatius and thank you to God who inspired Ignatius because if we unmask this a little bit, we can sometimes see what’s going on.
I want us to even get a little bit extra of the feeling, especially when we’re facing towards God. What would the bad spirits movement feel like? It’s things like; it’s an unsettling; it’s anxiety about serving God that suddenly pops out from nowhere. It’s an overwhelm suddenly of, I’m not good enough and I’m too weak to even be a Christian and doubting my worth.
It can even sometimes show up as an unexplained moment of sorrow that just comes over you. There’s sometimes also just this confusion or a sudden loss or losing of hope. Those voices and ideas—you can feel the nature of it. [00:33:00] It wants to bring anxiety and turn us away. Whereas when we’re facing towards God, God’s movement is giving encouragement; It’s reminding us of things like my grace is sufficient for you. There’s some consolation. There is the invitation to freedom. Sometimes there’s even tears of overwhelmed. but that opens us up and brings us even closer. There’s inspiration. Sometimes there’s just interior quiet; just gently saying, keep going. All this inner knowing of God is making a way.
So, as we’re talking about this what are the two spirits up to? I want to jump a little bit. I want to jump to Rules twelve (12), thirteen (13), and fourteen (14) and those three rules are again about [00:34:00] specific characteristics of the bad spirit.
I want to start off by saying, if you enjoy C. S.
Lewis’ work of The Screwtape Letters— I think it is so valuable, especially in week one, because it picks up a little bit—St. Thomas of the Moor wrote that the devil is a proud spirit, and he cannot endure being mocked. So, the three characteristics I wanna lift up of the bad spirit and I wanna actually capture something of that.
Let’s unmask what the movements are that kind of pull us away. Ignatius says in the Twelfth Rule that sometimes the bad spirit is like a small child throwing a tantrum—something like, “I want that sweet now!” Now, I am sure if we ask the parents in the room how your child has [00:35:00] ever embarrassed you, you will tell us many good stories.
Sometimes some of the writers translate it to a bully. or that the bad spirit acts like a bully. But let’s think about this. It is this immediacy, this intenseness that comes upon you like an intense temptation. Suddenly you don’t even know sometimes from where this came. Again, a strategy of the dark side is suddenly you have this incredible feeling of judgment or greed or envy or lust inside of you and you think, “Oh.” So, the marker that it’s really intense, or you suddenly have this intense thought that I can’t trust anybody, or this voice that’s so strong that says, “See, you’re not worthy.” So [00:36:00] it becomes as a real intense and then Ignatius says, “This is the trick; you must resist and confront head on and immediately.”
As a response to this—and again, we’re not going to talk too much about parenting strategy so if the small child doesn’t resonate, we can put it away or maybe you can put the bad spirit in timeout or something, but you know the idea is about confronting and resist immediately, because if you let it go a little bit, you’re gonna sit with it for a while. It might take you awhile. It might give you a bit of a tough time.
I often think about it in the context of ask anybody who’s ever gone on a diet or tried to give up smoking. If you have that [00:37:00] thought, “Oh, that looks amazing. I just want to eat that whole packet of chips.” If you don’t resist it strongly and immediately, you know how it goes. So, these are just funny ways to get the feel of it.
Ignatius has a beautiful example of how the bad spirit works with somebody kind of facing God and he had this encounter of the bad spirits saying to him, “Yeah, Ignatius, and how are you going to be able to stand this life, this prayer for 70 years you’re meant to live?” And Ignatius just answered him, “Can you even promise me one hour of life?” Isn’t that fantastic? This direct, bold confrontation. So, if you feel that intensity that wants to turn you away—our reaction, our advice from Ignatius is bold resistance [00:38:00] and act immediately.
Then the 13th rule. How does the bad spirit sometimes also operate? Sometimes as a secret lover. What happens with this, and we all know this, the things that are kept in the dark, like mold, grows into something even darker.
So even in our own life, to just recognize, what am I not willing to talk about, what do I not want to expose, why does the bad spirit make me even feel more shameful about going even more secretive? Because that’s secrecy builds like the shame inside of us and it starts to fester, and Ignatius encourages us to talk about it with a trusted companion. And we know in this room, we hope to be those [00:39:00] companions for the people that we are guiding—just a safe space. Perhaps those things that we are ashamed of, that we want to hide away from that bad spiritist, just keeps on saying, “No, don’t tell anybody. They will just never accept you. You will be like condemned forever.” We all know that voice. “Don’t say what you really feel or think. Hide. Hide.” And just like Adam and Eve, to hide versus allowing a walk with God as we become aware of our nakedness.
The 14th rule—the bad spirit sometimes shows up as an army commander and a clever one that is a strategist that knows where to look for on how to trip you up, deciding on where are your weaknesses, where is the vulnerability, and there’s [00:40:00] sneakiness in these lies, those inner voices that know just where to get you.
And Ignatius encourages us to also be smart. Also be a worthy companion and a worthy strategist. We obviously have the spirit at our side, but for us to do a little bit of work on our side. What are your weaknesses and vulnerabilities and perhaps also be a bit open about it and get to know them with God’s grace and week one is an amazing place to do that.
All right folks, we are jumping back to the third rule. What is consolation? Now, if you don’t want to read all of the text, please at least go and read the original 316, the full text of consolation. But we all have our [00:41:00] own definition I would say of this to make it just more accessible for us.
You would hear it said in this group, we would often call it a felt experience of God’s love, which leads to an increase of faith, hope, and love. So, when it comes to what a person is experiencing—either consolation or desolation—we really want to understand what is consolation? Consolation is a felt experience of God’s love that leads to an increase of faith, hope, and love.
I really enjoy using a movement to explain. So, for me, it’s an opening up. It’s a greater freedom, even if it’s sometimes a bit painful to open up, but it’s an opening, a freeing. So, there’s sometimes things like, in the original definition you’ll see [00:42:00] beautiful words like being inflamed with the love of God, experiencing that beautiful love of God, and our love also becomes inflamed, loving back. We even love more created things as we grow in consolation.
We kind of recognize the creator behind those things. It can even be tears; that we are moved by and even saddened sometimes of the things that perhaps, the moments I collaborated with the spirit that’s turning me away and so consolation can be a tearful moment of returning or just being moved or a real increase of faith, hope, love, and charity.
You can see Ignatius is quite a bit about responding to it too. So, it’s an experience that leads to an increased faith, hope, and love so [00:43:00] we’re gonna jump again And just a side note just to remind you that we are hoping that even if the graces of the first week can sound a bit difficult or asks quite a lot, it is a consoling experience in general. Do you remember that big movement? Week one, we’re hoping for that to be a consoling experience—God’s love leading to an increase, freedom, this movement.
Consolation tips—we’re gonna jump folks to rule 10 and 11. The 10th rule—this is really for us. This is where your giver hat should be on, taking notes or just remembering. Trust also that you’ll remember.
So, when your person is in consolation or when I’m in consolation, in the [00:44:00] 10th rule, Ignatius’ first tip for consolation is store it up, enjoy it, hold it, deepen it, journal about it, hold it. There’s something about this image of storing up for the winter months, you know. We know that life isn’t just one big consolation. We are going to have different moments. As a giver, when the person is in consolation, I want them to savor, enjoy, ask them more, tell me a bit more about it and how is it feeling. And this is where your journal is important. Jot it down. It’s the storing up of it for the winter months.
Sometimes we know that the time of consolation is even a time of a bit of challenge, taking up more, moving [00:45:00] outside our comfort zone, but the most important thing is to savor it, to store it up. That’s the tip one.
The 11th rule—Tip two—Ignatius is very adamant that we should remember that consolation is a gift. It’s from our side, also important to remember for me personally, that consolation is a gift, and that my response is gratitude.
Think about the examen when we do that. What do we remember? We remember some consoling moments, and what is our reaction? Gratitude. Beautiful. Ignatius is so smart in this particular place. I don’t know if it’s from his own personality, but he understands that pride is not such a cool thing, and that pride [00:46:00] just gives that gap for the bad spirit. So, he wants us to embrace the humility involved. That’s what this is about, is to remember it’s a gift. So sometimes in a direction or a companionship situation as a giver, I would ask questions for the person to savor it, and then I would comment, even say, “Wow, what a gift! What a gift!”—just as a reminder.
All right, folks, we are jumping back. This might not give you a good score in a test, but if I was to ask, what is desolation? You just say, it’s the opposite of consolation. That’s really what it is. I love these two descriptions. The one is, it’s a felt sense of dissonance, which seeks to undermine faith, hope, and love in my life. I like that.
Or another [00:47:00] definition that I got from ignatianspirituality.com just says “times when the heart feels far from God and the spiritual vigor wanes.” I like it. So, it’s a moment that we don’t feel connected and there’s a bit of a lower energy.
I’m going to read some words, and this is how you might find it in your person. This is my how it might show up and we’ve all experienced this too. Sometimes a person battles to pray, or they’re distracted, or it feels dry or it’s a lot of doubts or anxiety suddenly. The mood might be particularly low. It feels that there’s confusion at play. There’s a bit of restlessness or disturbance. It’s almost like what Augustine said, “Our hearts are restless, Lord until we find you.”
Then [00:48:00] sometimes you find yourself going for things like just you’re easily tripped up—things that you can easily resist—suddenly, you can just give in to those things. There’s an unsettledness. There could be an easier time to show anger and not in a regulated way. A lot of self-doubt could show up, a bit of laziness or just unloving in general, or a real felt sense of abandonment, so you get the feel of it.
This is why Ignatius gives us some tips, hooray. Tip one—when you are experiencing desolation—and please, it is a normal part of life—please, it is a normal part of life. In fact, I think if we make it this thing, it becomes this THING. I think it’s important to [00:49:00] laugh at ourselves a little bit sometimes. Sometimes it’s us collaborating and sometimes desolation happens. We’re getting to that.
Anyway, the first Rule—the first tip is simply don’t change any decision made in consolation. So, when your exercitant arrives and says, “I have made a big mistake. I think we should stop with the exercise,” you are going to be very curious. You’re going to wonder what is going on.
Are they in desolation or are they in consolation? If they’re in desolation and they’re experiencing desolation, you’re going to very gently, deeply encourage them by blaming Ignatius and say, [00:50:00] “Ignatius encourages us to never change a decision that we make in consolation.
Tip number two, the Sixth rule—When I am in desolation, Ignatius encourages us to move against. That special phrase that they call agere contra, that I’m convinced I might not be pronouncing correctly, encourages us to move against.“ So, “I don’t feel God’s love; I just feel in a darker place. I just can’t manage even 10 minutes of prayer.” To move against is to sit longer. So, move against what you are feeling; actively move against so that things that hold us back [00:51:00] to experience freedom—to move against them.
Tip number three, the Seventh rule is remember. So, remember the consolations received before and that God has given you enough grace; is sufficient grace. So, this is why we journal, so we can go back to that, and this is where we hold memory for the person in front of us. Not in a cheap way to say, “Oh, don’t worry. Remember God was there for you last time.” Luckily our way is to gently wander with, but we hold memory as well for the person especially of the times of consolations. I cannot say the word remember without thinking about Mufasa of the Lion King. It’s really about, remember the consolations.
The Eighth rule, the Tip number four, is [00:52:00] Ignatius simply encourages us to be patient. It makes me think a little bit about that famous sermon that says, “It’s Friday, but Sunday’s coming.” It’s a little bit our encouragement. Sometimes we hold the role of encourager for the person as well to just say, “I wonder if we can be patient with this?” Be curious about the desolation.
The Ninth rule—I love this part. It’s not a full explanation, but the ninth rule is about some causes of desolation. So why am I finding myself in this particular place that feels this disconnected? Whatever the words are, and I really want to encourage you to find some words, to look at the definitions and find some words that help explain [00:53:00] this.
So. Ignatius gives us three possible insights, and I’m sure there’s more. So, one he says It could be me; It could be all my own doing. I just know I’ve been neglecting this relationship with god. There’s a laziness that’s been sitting in or even like a total busyness and just forgetting and not making it a priority in my life so there’s a bit of a disconnect because I’m not facing towards. In any normal relationship you would find it. If the one person is really going hmf, there is going to be a little bit of a disconnect until we turn and really connect. So sometimes it’s me. Sometimes it’s me.
The second two, Ignatius suggests that sometimes God allows desolation. [00:54:00] One, because it’s something about learning to love the giver of the gifts more than the gifts. So, it’s something about a dry time— that love God for God’s self. It’s almost a little bit of that desert and there is so much written in about what happens in deserts. But is this about our love that grows for God, a special kind of determination and commitment when it’s a little bit dry.
And then the third one, it’s something about acknowledging the gift of consolation. It’s about when you see the shadow, you can really appreciate the light. It’s really to help us remember and grow maturity, to really consider consolation as a [00:55:00] gift, not something we produce because I’m good and I do all these things, I receive consolation. It’s just a remembering of that it’s a gift.
Father William Broderick, whose article I will share with you all, shares the following. He says,
Desolation tells us something about ourselves. It points out the unredeemed areas of our lives. It indicates the next growth point, hence the importance to stay with the desolation and not trying to escape from it.
So, how do we apply these rules? First, it’s really important to know them so that you can access them and know and recognize them—just in a gentle way. It helps you recognize the movements, so that we can say yes—a bigger yes. [00:56:00]
In the little notes, the annotations, Ignatius also writes about these rules for discernment. In Annotation 80, he explains that you don’t necessarily give these rules to somebody and say, “All right, here we go. Oh, this is what happened. Let me explain to you.” We’re a little bit more subtle like that; we notice it. We could refer to it; sometimes we could explain it. We are not doctors. We’re not trying to say, “This is what is wrong with you.” That’s not our posture.
Our posture is like in Annotation Six—just this encourager. You give your person the benefit of the doubt. Always you are kind when they go through desolation. You are so kind. You’re a safe space. [00:57:00] You remain the anchor.
How do we apply them? They are simply there for us to help see perhaps what’s going on and offer questions that could help to turn towards, to collaborate with. And so especially the consolation desolation, you could see how practical that gets. Let me give you a quick example. The person comes in, they say, “This week was—it really didn’t work. Why would you give me something on angels? It didn’t talk with me. I couldn’t even pray. It didn’t relate to me. This is all a big mistake. Ha.
First, you have a bit of a fright inside, but you keep a face and you’re definitely going to go to supervision and that’s okay. And inside you’re going like, Ah, I wonder what’s going on. [00:58:00] Which way are they facing? What spirits could be at play? Is there consolation? It seems like desolation with what they’re saying, but let’s explore a bit more.
In desolation, what am I doing? If it is desolation, sometimes it could just be physical desolation. You always want to say, “tell me a bit more.” It could be that this person has just not slept for a whole week, so they’re just grumpy—end of story–but it could be a little bit more layered than that. Maybe they’re physically unwell.
Maybe it is spiritual desolation and then we have some tips. We say move against. You remind of the consolation. You’re patient. Don’t change decisions. Sometimes you even want to wonder, is the bad spirit—perhaps, how is it showing up? Sometimes we want to wonder if a person is [00:59:00] open about what is happening in their prayer time. You remember that secrecy?
All right, I’m going to show you just very briefly, the main big screen. Can you see that? Yes, I’m nodding. I hope so. So, from there, oh, this doesn’t want to move. Let me just stop the share. If you want to bring it all together. Sorry, let me just go to the last slide. This is what I’m going to send you. Just if you are a big picture person, I wanna just very briefly go through this with you.
All right, one and two, which way are they [01:00:00] facing? And depending on that, the one is going, “yes, keep going,” and the other one is going, “Hmm, really?” If we jump all the way to 12, 13, 14, sometimes the bad spirit shows up as a little child, or a tantrum, or a bully, and a secret lover, or an army commander.
And then the middle bunch, 3 to 11 is truly about consolation/ desolation. Consolation, there’s a connect, greater faith, hope, love in consolation. Encourage it; savor it; enjoy it; store it up; journal. And remember, it’s a gift.
Desolation is basically not consolation. Four tips for desolation—Don’t change decision. Move against. Remember there’s a grace and enough grace and be patient
All [01:01:00] right, ladies and gentlemen, that was a lot to take in. Do not worry. We are going to have enough time for soaking this in. I’m going to post you the questions in the chat and we will be back. Oh, thanks Pam for posting the questions and we will be back at 20 past. Bring your wonderings. [01:02:00]
Welcome back, everybody. I hope that was a bit connecting, a bit of giggling, a bit of goodness and lessons shared.
So, before we receive some wonderings and just sharing some of the insights, which we’re excited to do just to say again, before we forget this admin point is that it is okay to start with somebody so long. So, if there is somebody that has crossed your road, you are very welcome to start with them so long in case anybody is wondering about it. You are ready to go. Disposition days await you and you have a [01:03:00] supervisor, so you’re okay. And you’re probably more equipped than you realize and there’s only one first time.
All right. After that small advertisement and administration, we wonder and we would love to receive just some feedback, maybe give us a little bit of a glimpse of your conversation or wonderings, even some clarification that’s needed or anything.
I see Rhonda and then I think I heard Jaco so maybe let’s start with Rhonda.
Rhonda: We were just talking a little bit about [01:04:00] terminology and rules. And well, for me, I know I have a resistance to rules, but in Spanish, the word rule is regla, and what that also means is it’s the norm or the principle. It’s also a measurement; it’s actually the tool for measuring and so it’s helpful to use that. It’s a little less laden with shoulds, I think if you can use it as a guideline for is this consolation, is this desolation? It’s kind of a scaffolding idea, as well as the principle is another reason to use regla. So that was my two cents in Spanish.
Adri-Marie: We welcome that two cents. I think it’s much more valuable than two cents.
The word regla and that imagination of scaffolding, even a trellis, I know sometimes people talk about a trellis to grow against but thank you. Thank you, Rhonda. Thank you.[01:05:00]
I did hear somebody else. I wonder. Yes, Gavin.
Gavin: From someone who spent an unnecessarily long time in desolation, I think it’s good to resist it. ASAP. And I’ve just said in my group, and I’m wondering if this couldn’t be a bit of discussion point to discern between anxiety, which we all have to a greater or lesser extent, and when anxiety becomes bad spirit, and I think that’s a helpful thing to deal with. I’m actually dealing with it right now in 1 Peter 5 because anxiety does have lies, [01:06:00] but the enemy is the father of lies. So, to resist it ASAP, but then also to find help with discernment, so that you can resist it ASAP and not wallow in it too long like I did and then you pay a heavy price.
Adri-Marie: Thank you. Thank you so much for that, Gavin. I think you’re bringing such important themes to the conversation, and I would love to ask Brenda and Trevor if they would like to comment to this too. When we’re dealing with human beings, we are the folks that we know we are treading on sacred ground.
We are not trying to say, this is exactly what’s going on. We are wondering with this sacred ground, what is God up to? Very gently. Gently—that’s the [01:07:00] movement of discerning, wondering what’s going on. We’re not quick to say these are the causes, et cetera, because we are complex human beings. Exactly like you say, Gavin, the anxiety to feel things is so natural. It’s beautiful. It’s part of the human experience. I think we are not to give that bad spirit too much credit sometimes, and perhaps just acknowledge the human experience.
In the break we discussed a little bit and Trevor mentioned about the beauty of just holding the space and helping somebody to name what they are going through and to normalize it and say, all right, desolation happens. What is it to wonder about it? What is happening here? What is it that we are feeling? What is it that we are experiencing? And holding that space in a safe way and then [01:08:00] discern from there. Trevor. Trevor: Yeah, I think it may be helpful to, like Ignatius specifically speaks of spiritual consolation and spiritual desolation. And while I don’t want to get into a split spirituality, I think there are natural desolations. I think you used the word, Adri-Marie, sometimes there’s a natural, like I’m thinking of natural desolation moments of let’s say, anxiety or struggling with clinical depression, or grief or loss. These are natural moments of desolation, and not necessarily spiritual desolation. And I think that one can experience moments of spiritual consolation [01:09:00] in moments of natural desolation. Often, I’ve been with someone in grief, and they’ve known a very consoling presence, even though they have been desolate.
All I’m doing again is adding on to what you’ve said of just that multi layered dimension of experience that all human beings have, and for us to be very nuanced and careful. I think Gavin has just raised our antenna around that, and then on the other hand, with a natural desolation, let’s say of depression or maybe anxiety, I think there can be an added spiritual desolation as that gets used against us to sabotage our life and our faith.
I’m sure Brenda will add more, but I’ve always been intrigued by the fact that Ignatius speaks of spiritual [01:10:00] consolation and spiritual desolation. Yeah, just wanted to add that to the conversation.
Brenda: Can I just add something in there as well? I think what you’re saying there, Gavin, that there are a few signs that help us maybe to touch into what Rob Marsh calls a counter movement. I find that language quite helpful rather than just desolation. So, this might be bad spirit. The one thing that is really noticeable, if it’s perhaps a counter movement, a bad spirit movement is an intensity—Adri-Marie spoke about that—that the experience, the feelings, the reaction is out of proportion to what’s going on, and the person is often aware of that. It just comes out of nowhere. It can be overwhelming, so that’s a really helpful kind of thing to [01:11:00] notice.
Again, it just puts up our antenna and goes, I wonder if this might be bad spirit. And we’re not going, this is, but there’s just that awareness. So, I think that is really the one thing that is helpful for me is that is this out of proportion–the intensity that may help us notice.
Also, often with the bad spirit, if it is a bad spirit movement, if it gets named, which is part of the resisting, just saying, this is not from God. Often there’s a break in tension and that’s quite helpful to just notice as you explore what’s going on, where might this be coming from? As you do that, sometimes there’s a shift that can be quite helpful.
Adri-Marie: And just to encourage you in a really practical level, exactly like what Brenda says, it’s a conversation. We’re asking, and what is this like for you? This person might share, I’m feeling this and to ask, so what is that [01:12:00] like? What does that feel like? And even maybe sometimes go to your body and sometimes we might say, what do you sense about this voice? What is this voice bringing up for you? Or where is this voice coming from? It’s maybe too cognitive, but we explore gently so that that person comes to their own finding. Sometimes it might just be subtle, where we just encourage the person, perhaps in this week, why don’t you just sit 10 minutes longer? Sometimes it’s as small and practical as that to move against. Angela, I think you raised your hand.
Angela: Yeah, I was going to ask Brenda something. You kind of answered it though. I was curious. Would we name that for them, or would we explore helping them to name it? You kind of just answered that a little bit there, Adri-Marie. It’s not that we need to name for them, this is not from God, but we can maybe help them explore and come to their own [01:13:00] conclusion, which is most helpful for their lifelong journey, right? We don’t want them to be dependent on us to name things, but that’s what I’m understanding we’re saying in this, right?
Adri-Marie: Yes—the wondering how explicit it is. A lot of this is sometimes I think one’s own stylist director or as giver of the exercises. Sometimes it comes down to that and whatever is helpful for that person. That is where we go, but we remain within our role. That’s why it’s always so vital to remember what our role is as co-listener. We don’t go into teacher. We don’t go into coach. We just stay as wondering, and sometimes these rules are just us peeking behind the curtain. We’re sometimes able to see behind the curtain. It’s not lessons now for this person to learn; so, sometimes it could [01:14:00] be so subtle.
I wonder Brenda and Trevor if you want to add about how is it perhaps that you apply it, maybe to make it really extra practical, or how does it show up for you in sessions?
Trevor: I just want to underline what Brenda was saying. I think it may be helpful with a simple question like—what you’re going through, is it moving you away from God? Is it moving you towards God? So, this anxiety that you are experiencing at the moment, they may in their anxiety be moving very strongly towards God for help and grace. It might be naturally desolate, but spiritually deeply consoling or their anxiety also may be taking them—I love the Rob Marsh article on movements. I think it is really helpful. Something very simple as that could be, I think, a gift for the [01:15:00] person doing the exercises.
Brenda: I think it might be my Methodist, but I like having a framework. So, when I’m giving the exercises, I like to help people learn how to apply the rules, all the guidelines or the trailers so that they actually have those tools as they work through them. So, for my own personal style and the way I work with people is actually to go, “I wonder if this is,” and then to help them grapple with the rules or the framework so that they have the tools for discernment themselves as they move through the exercises. That’s my particular way of accompanying and using the rules.
Angela: It’s very helpful. Thank you.
Adri-Marie: I really enjoy blaming Ignatius or bringing him into the space. I often say, Ignatius [01:16:00] has this encouragement. He notes this happens. How does that land with you? So, if in doubt, blame Ignatius. Tracy,
Tracy: I think a curiosity I have around spiritual consolation and spiritual desolation—is it always connected to emotions? I think we always talk about it in terms of these big emotions we’re having, and we label them positive or negative and going back to that idea of natural consolations and natural desolations, of course, there’s emotions, but I just wonder if thinking of someone who’s just moving along in life and there’s no apparent emotion, but maybe there’s no apparent movement towards God. Is that a desolation?
Adri-Marie: Hmmm…that’s a good question. I’ll let the others answer.
No, what comes to me, Tracy, and thank you for [01:17:00] that. Ignatius consistently, I think, celebrates all of life and as we guide different folks, things show up in a different way for them. They are designed differently. I think it’s experiential, so it might just be a body experience or might be more thought based or I think I want to just be attentive to how this person encounters God. How are those pathways and that’s why I think the early days of disposition are so helpful of getting to know a person. I would be curious. We listen also for consolation, and in our guiding, we follow the road of consolation in the end, so we’re curious on how that does show up. It’s a lovely part to be curious about in the disposition days, or even the first week, they give you the clues on how that shows up. I would brave to say, [01:18:00] it’s experiential, however that is for them. Brenda and Trevor?
Trevor: Just one part of Tracy’s wandering—I think Ignatius also assumes, and we’ll look at this when we come to decision making that there may be no movements. One may be just in a kind of yacht and there are no currents moving at all, and it’s just in this place of—I’m not too sure what to call it—a kind of calm or tranquility and he acknowledges that himself when he speaks about using the discernment of spirits in decision making. He, in fact gives the option—and we won’t do this now—but what do we do when there are no movements? Are there other ways then that we can come to a decision [01:19:00] when in fact there is no clear discernment of spirit?
So, just to pick up that one part where the person may not be experiencing any strong movements either towards or away.
Brenda: I think I would also add that consolation is about connection with God. It’s about that movement towards God. So sometimes people don’t have the warm fuzzies; you know, feeling wonderful, but when you help them explore where is God? Do you have a sense of God’s presence with you? Do you have a sense of God’s listening as you share?
Often there’s a very real sense, although they’re not feeling the emotions of wow, God is here. I have no doubt that God is journeying with me through these days, that God is willing and desiring my good. So, that would be consolation, even if I’m not [01:20:00] feeling the highs, and equally desolation would be then that sense of the absence of God. It may just be a dullness.
The other thing I wanted to say as well is we tend to think of consolation and desolation as two binaries—one or the other. But I often have a sense, it’s more helpful to think of almost a continuum. Sometimes we are in the really intense consolation and at other times we’re tending to consolation and there is a sense of warmth and connection. But it doesn’t have the intensity that it can have at other times and that’s all okay. It’s all about God’s gift of consolation.
Adri-Marie: Is that okay, Tracy? Yeah? Thank you. Anne. 01:21:00]
You okay, Anne? Let me ask you to unmute. Ah, there we go.
Anne: Okay. Sorry, my computer froze. Everything froze. Then it went black, but I’m back.
Adri-Marie: We are happy to have you.
Anne: Thank you. I just was thinking about Margaret Silf in her book, Landmarks describes consolation and desolation in a really helpful way. That image of when I’m in desolation, the sun is behind me, so I’m in my shadow, as it were. I’m facing my shadow and when I’m in a state of consolation, I’m looking directly at God and [01:22:00] my shadow falls behind me.
I found that really helpful. If I’m orientated a little away, then I’m a little bit into my shadow. So, I just think that’s a lovely image to hold and when explaining consolation and desolation.
Adri-Marie: Oh, thank you, Anne. Ah, that’s lovely and I think it helps us with this idea of the continuum. It’s not just so clean cut. Sometimes it’s like part shadow. Yeah, lovely. Lovely. Thanks for offering that. Perhaps I should ask if you’re currently [01:23:00] in consolation or desolation. But I won’t.
Any more wonderings or insights or things that feel a bit more clear or less clear?
Adri-Marie: Just to say, Adri-Marie, although you were joking, I think we really learn about discernment of spirits with a careful reflection upon our own experience. I think it just underlines our own need for some ongoing interaction with the examen, ongoing conversation with a companion, and that we ourselves are noticing what’s going on in our own experience.
I think that fine tunes our awareness in [01:24:00] listening also to another person’s experience. Although you were joking, I think what you were saying is very important for us.
Adri-Marie: I don’t know who else perhaps had that experience that the exercises became a gift of discernment in that sense to you personally. It’s just this continuous movement. Doreen.
Doreen: Along that line, as a former doctor, I like to think about learning discernment like the first time you’re pregnant, you feel the baby move at 20 weeks, and the second time at about 16, 17 weeks, and the babies don’t move any sooner the second time, you just learn what that [01:25:00] tiny little movement inside is much more quickly the second time. I think that’s what we’re trying to do with discernment—paying attention to what that tiny little movement, or maybe sometimes a big whooshing movement of the spirit inside is and to recognize it much more quickly.
Adri-Marie: Yeah. Oh, another lovely, lovely image of recognizing life, like recognizing the movement. And really, to come back to the essence. Ignatius is truly cheering us on here. He’s giving us a gift that he observed, and for us to help recognize in order to collaborate, to say a bigger yes, to have intimacy, to grow in [01:26:00] friendship.
I think certainly for myself, first practically through the exercises, but as I got to know the regla of it—the rules for discernment–there is something about recognition that helps me. Anybody else? Heather.
Heather: The one thing that really surprised me was when you said that sometimes God allows desolation and I straight away went, “no way.” I had this no, that’s impossible. He doesn’t do that. God does not do that.
And then, when you said it’s to love the giver of the gift and not the gift. It put a lot into perspective [01:27:00] for me, but it surprised me because I would never have thought that was possible. So, I haven’t really worked it all out, but I’m thinking about it.
Adri-Marie: Thank you for that, Heather. I have also not quite worked that fully out in my own self. Even in preparation. I kept wondering, I wonder how much this vocab is, how much of this is conceptual for me, but I think on an experiential level, I think going back to that experience, there’s something about lessons in the desert. There’s something about the Christian tradition that we’re part of, that these mystical writers help us to understand that sometimes there’s a bit of dryness or however you’d like to put words to it, [01:28:00] something that does something in us. Yeah. Sometimes it’s a word thing. Sometimes a conceptual thing.
I would love for Brenda and Trevor to also add to that and then Liz will get to you—Brenda, Trevor?
Brenda: I think as well, I work through the reality that life happens. The reality is we go through patches of desolation. And how have we got there? I think the first part of why God allows that is often the one that really makes sense—I’ve done or not done something .I’ve either not prayed or I’ve worked too hard, or I’ve chosen things over God, but it happens and often with directees and in the exercises with directees to be able to normalize desolation. It is part of life. Like in [01:29:00] any relationship, sometimes you feel closer and sometimes it’s a little harder. It happens and it’s staying focused on God—even as you journey through that wilderness time, that seems to be important. Normalizing, staying focused, checking if there is anything I can do differently are all helpful things.
Trevor: And perhaps I can just add one or two sentences, and I really don’t want to go down a rabbit hole here, but I think that there is in my limited understanding of the dark night of the soul and St. John of the Cross’s writings, that there is a sense in which God can lead us into a dark night. And for Ignatius, though, I think that for me, the subtle nuance is that spiritual desolation is originated [01:30:00] by the dark spirit.
So, my sense of accompanying some people who I really sense have been led by God, not by the bad spirit into a time of being in the desert, or a time of darkness in the St. John of the Cross kind of way. I think that is significantly different to the use of Ignatius’ terminology of bad spirit and spiritual desolation.
So, I would want to keep that nuance in my own heart and mind in accompanying someone, but I don’t want to go down a rabbit hole and I just want to leave it there.
Adri-Marie: And nobody wants you to leave it just there, but we will continue. Liz .
Liz: I just wanted to say on Trevor’s comment about the dark night of the soul, Mother Teresa wrote her [01:31:00] memoirs, her letters that were published later on about being in constant desolation and that she felt that was from God. And some of us have felt that also–that we are doing well, our lives are going well, and yet God removes Himself so we can appreciate God and learn to hang in there when God seems absent. That can be a great blessing and a strengthening.
Adri-Marie: Thank you, Liz. I think this is where this idea of orientation also really helps us. My movement, my face is that I’m turning myself toward—I’m orientating my life towards God. I might have different experiences in that time [01:32:00] that feel specific ways, but my orientation is towards God. Shirley.
Shirley: I think this is related, but Trevor you said earlier about spiritual desolation and natural desolation and you didn’t want to go down that rabbit hole, but it has left me with some confusion. So, spiritual desolation that is originated by the bad spirit where a natural desolation is just something that happens to you.
For instance, then an example would be like maybe depression as a chemical imbalance versus depression that comes on as a result of some hidden sin or depression that comes along from some other source that isn’t [01:33:00] measurable? Is that what you’re saying? Can you give even just one sentence on the difference between the two, between natural and spiritual, because that I think would be very key in working with somebody, is knowing when it is natural and when it is spiritual? That was my question.
Trevor: Shirley, I’d come back to Adri-Marie and what she’s just said here—this whole thing of orientation, I think is really, really important. So, that for me is like a building block of discernment that would be important. Secondly, for me, there is a certain—again, not getting into it too much of a dualism—but there’s a naturalness, I think, in our humanity to struggle at times with things like anxiety or [01:34:00] depression, or grief, or loss, etc.
There’s a naturalness to that. I think for me, Ignatius’ use of the word spiritual desolation just keeps me alert to the fact—is there a temptation in this time of anxiety or loss or grief to turn against or away from God. And that’s where there may be just a need to be aware of that, because I think for an experience of loss and grief, it doesn’t naturally lead one away. It doesn’t necessarily have to lead one away from God, but I think it can be quote unquote “used by the bad spirit” to really turn one away from God in a very [01:35:00] significant way.
So, I’m just wanting to keep nuances alive without falling into a terrible split between natural and spiritual. I do want to honor his language of talking about a spiritual consolation and a spiritual desolation. I don’t know if that is helpful or not, and Adri-Marie and Brenda can add to that or clarify.
How does that land, Shirley?
Shirley: It lands. It lands well. Thank you. I think that was helpful. Thank you.
Brenda: I sometimes give another example. Someone can be in a wonderful space in their life. Looking from the outside, things are going well, family are doing well, they have a good job, life feels good, but there is a felt disconnect from God—that dryness, [01:36:00] that emptiness, something’s missing, so they can be without again that split, but naturally things look like they are good, consoling, but there’s still a sense of spiritual desolation—a longing for more. So, that’s looking at it from the other side as well.
Trevor: Thank you.
Adri-Marie: You’ll see some of the commentaries write specifically how Ignatius is not trying to create the theology around what is all the origins of things. He’s actually more trying to help us when we experience these things. How could we perhaps go about it? So, when we are experiencing it, and I think that this is why this particular [01:37:00] topic—whatever your beliefs and the language that you use underneath—really we’d like to encourage you to have some good conversation with God around even what evoked in this particular time.
What words stirred resistance in you and have a conversation. What felt inviting and even resistance can be a consoling experience or not a consoling experience or it can unlock beautiful things for us. So, this session in particular, if you feel there were some movements, our encouragement to you is if you can, just take one or two moments to extra reflect perhaps on some of the movements inside. Ignatius doesn’t try and get caught up underneath but really goes into the practice practicality. [01:38:00]
I’m gonna gently land by asking Trevor to do a closing prayer for us. If you have some more wonderings, you know where to find us. Thank you, Trevor.
Trevor: Just a big shout out to Adri-Marie. Thanks. I just want to build on Brenda’s opening devotion earlier when she read to us the Psalm and I have been drawn to a verse in Deuteronomy, which Paul also uses in, I think Romans Chapter 10, and I just want to read this verse through twice, have a moment of silence and invite you to notice.
The word is very near to you. It is in your mouth, and in your [01:39:00] heart for you to notice.
The word is very near to you. It is in your mouth, and in your heart for you to notice.
You may just want to take a moment to notice some of the words that you’ve spoken and some of the words that you’ve listened to, and you may want to just notice how your heart has been in our time together, and whether you’ve had a sense of being drawn towards God in any way, or drawn away [01:40:00] from God,
The Word is very near to you. It is in your mouth, and in your heart, for you to notice.
And so dear God, we thank you for the intimacy of your Word in our heart and our mouth, very near to us, even within us. Thank you for tonight and help us to take [01:41:00] that word that you have given us with us as we leave each other now. And so, we go in your love from which nothing can separate us in Christ Jesus our Lord. Amen.
Adri-Marie: Wonderful to be together. Have a good day or evening.