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02.
In Conversation with Dieter Zander
Gary Black, Jr.: When you look back at your life before the stroke compared to your life after the stroke which do you prefer? Or stated another way—if you made a list of the things you lost because of the stroke compared to the things you gained from the stroke which list would be longer?
Dieter Zander: I say in the book that my aphasia means that I am alone. After weeks, months, years of wearisome interactions, few people have the patience to stay with me long enough to hear what I have to say. I’ve lost old friendships, and new connections are nearly impossible to make. But, in my alone-ness, I discovered God.
(After a long and thoughtful pause.) I think about all of this like it’s a journey on a path. There is a “before” and an “after” the stroke. But this is really about being on a path. I liked my life before. There were some good things about that life. But now I’m not on that part of the path anymore because it’s behind me and I can’t go back. It’s gone. And I’m on a new part of the path and this part is very good. I love my stroke. It is a significant part of my path that has brought me to where I am today and I love where I am today.
I love my stroke. But I know that that is hard on my friends and family to understand. They see all that has happened, all I have lost and they struggle with that and I understand why. It’s hard. They find it hard to understand God’s role in all of this. There are many unanswered questions that even I don’t know. They see how many good things I was able to do before like leading, teaching, singing, playing the piano—things they loved and I loved—and they are sad and confused about how these things were lost.
But my stroke is precious to me. It is hard on those who love me to hear that. But it is precious to me and I wouldn’t trade it.
My family watches me and they think I’m brave in how I’m handling this. But that’s not it. I’m not brave because I don’t have to be brave. Every day early in the morning I get up before I go to work at 4:30 am and I talk with God. I am his sheep and he is my shepherd. And I know he is going to take care of me. I know this. Every day, every day, God gives me everything. Everything. EVERY . . . THING! I’m not brave. It’s not me. I just live in the reality of God as my shepherd in his world where he is king. I’m not brave. I’m a sheep following God. That’s all. It’s simple really. I’m on a path that I don’t know what tomorrow holds. But I know . . . I know . . . I KNOW . . . God is good to me. And I can rest. I am at rest that tomorrow will be good, no matter what, because God is with me. It’s very simple. I’m very simple now. Simple is good. But it’s real. It’s very, very real.
GB: How do you help other people who love you to overcome what has happened to you?
DZ: I don’t know, I don’t know. It’s hard.
GB: The title of your book is Stroke of Grace. Why or how was the stroke an act of grace?
DZ: It allowed me to get out of the prison of performance. There was a time after the stroke I was living in a friend’s little shack in his back yard for a month and I was alone and I realized my family is suffering, my job is never coming back, my ability to work and earn is gone, I can’t lead, sing, teach, or pastor and I’m thinking “I’m done. I want to die.” Suicide starts to run through my mind. I am done. Totally drained. I can’t talk with people. They don’t understand me. I’m so very lonely. Everything I thought was important and essential for my life is stripped away and I am left totally bare.
And in that shack God speaks to me and says, “Dieter, I love you.”
And I realize it’s not my leadership, or my singing or my performance that God loves. Even when all that is gone God tells me—just as I am, all alone with nothing—I am loved. That is re-birth. I know God knows me as I am, with none of my performances and all of my failures. God loves just me. That is grace.
After that God said to me, “Dieter, come play with me. Play with me.” It’s not work, work, work. That German thing in me, the need to work and earn. Now it’s practicing to play. That’s grace. I didn’t know if I would ever speak again, or if people would ever be able to understand me or if I would even be able to say my son’s names. I had no way to communicate at all. Yet I found out that I had a new start. A chance at re-birth to re-learn everything all over again. That’s a gift. That’s grace. I had to learn everything, all over. That is grace. The stroke stripped me of all the things that I used to hope and dream for. Now I live a different dream.
(He then pulls out his iPhone and shows me a cut and pasted quote from Oswald Chambers.)
It’s that. (He points.) It’s that.
We all have many dreams and aspirations when we are young, but sooner or later we realize we have no power to accomplish them. We cannot do the things we long to do, so our tendency is to think of our dreams and aspirations as dead. But God comes and says to us, “Arise from the dead. . . .” When God sends His inspiration, it comes to us with such miraculous power that we are able to “arise from the dead” and do the impossible.i
See? The stroke took away my pride and fear. That’s grace.
GB: Over the years, in many of our conversations, you have consistently used the phrase, “God talks with me.” How do you hear God’s voice? Is it different now than before the stroke?
DZ: Before the stroke, many years ago, when I first planted New Song (church), God gave me a vision (he flails his arms in the air dramatically and laughs) that was very bright, and loud, and lights, and it was very dramatic. It’s funny. Then later, when we were praying about going to Willow Creek, I knew God was nudging me, prodding us to go. Then later, when we were thinking about leaving Willow and coming to San Francisco, I knew God was giving us a choice. We had a choice and coming to San Francisco was one of maybe many choices that would have been good for us.
But after the stroke there was a long time when I couldn’t talk and I didn’t know if I would ever talk again. I didn’t know. Saying my own name was very hard. Nothing was coming out. I was stuck in my own mind. But even though I couldn’t talk to anyone God was talking to me, and I was talking to him. We were talking a lot. And now, just like I know your voice on the phone, I know his voice. I know when it’s God that’s talking to me. And it’s not the loud, bright, flashing lights. It’s just God’s voice talking with me. I look forward to that every single morning. It is the best part of my day. That is one part of my practice I do now for the past five years.
My other practice is to take Psalm 23 every day and I read one verse a day for six days Monday through Saturday and on Sunday I read it all. So on Monday, I read, “the Lord is my shepherd. I have everything I need.” And that’s true. And I experience that. It’s real. And some days like today, I was thinking about meeting with you and talking with God about us meeting, and today is Friday and today is “the feast.” God prepares a table for me. And here we are eating good food, and it’s good, and wine is good. My cup is full. And it’s real.
And there are days where I am walking in shadows of the valley. But God is there to take care of me. It’s real. It’s not about bravery or even faith. I know God is doing these things in my life every day. And the rod is good because God uses it to push and prod me back onto the path if I’m starting to stray. The rod helps me. Because God loves me and wants me to stay in the green grass and on the right path.
Before the stroke I was always afraid. Now I’m not. I am not afraid. Because I dwell in God’s house. His world, this world is his house and I’m safe because goodness follows me everywhere I go in God’s house. It’s not faith. It’s not bravery. It’s knowledge. God knows me and I know him.
GB: Let’s go back and tell me more about what that prison of performance was like. Tell me more about that. You mention in the book the idea that you were a “rock star.”
DZ: I loved the people I was pastoring. And people loved me and they loved what I could do. I did, too. They loved how good I was at teaching and singing. But now that product is gone. It’s just gone. It’s hard. But it’s good, too.
Years ago I used to perform because I needed to be accepted and it felt good to have other people admire what I did. It was all solo. Just me. Not with others. It was all me speaking, singing, playing the piano. It was like I was out, performing all over the place, and God was sitting back and watching me perform—and as I danced around he sat and watched. I was performing for God and working hard to earn my worth from others and I needed that. And it was fine. But I was very lonely. I didn’t know it . . . but I was lonely.
But now it is God and me, together. Now every day, everything I do is worship. I see God everywhere in everything. When I work, when I do the trash, and cut up the cardboard, and clean, and stock the shelves, when I talk to people, I am worshipping. I see God there. I am a student in class with God every day. I am learning all the time about everything in life. My spirit is weak but God’s spirit is strong, and he is showing me how to see the world like he sees it with love and grace. I learn how to live and do my work like he wants. And what happens is, I love what I learn, it’s so good. I learn about what God cares about and what he can and can’t do. And every day I have some testimony, some story of what God is doing.