IGNATIAN SPIRITUAL EXERCISES TRAINING (ISET)
2023-BLOCK THREE – SESSION 23
GIVING THE THREE KEY STRUCTURED EXERCISES
Annemarie: [00:00:00] Hi everyone. We’ve just got a couple more people joining.[00:01:00]
So welcome, Trevor’s going to lead our prayer this evening, so I’m going to put ourselves into Trevor’s hands for now. Thanks, Trevor.
Trevor: Good to be with you. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Around the world, lovely to be with you.
Before we even start, perhaps I can just give a little bit of an outline of what I’m going to do. I’m very aware that we’re going to be doing a reflection on the three structured exercises. So, I thought we could have a quieting exercise, which I’d lead you through and then I’ll pray the preparatory prayer. And then I [00:02:00] have a question, a kind of reflective question that we’ll spend a few minutes in silence reflecting on that is related to the structured exercises.
And then I will end off by going through a beautiful prayer by David Fleming that he has put together in relation to the three structured exercises. So that will be the journey that we’re on. I invite you, if you would like to, to switch off the camera. I will leave mine on and will lead you in this time.
A very simple quietening exercise which I find very helpful is for us to maybe first of all just listen to all the sounds outside of [00:03:00] the room that we are in at the moment—to be aware of all the different sounds that we can hear outside of our room.
I want you to now become aware of all the sounds within the room that you are seated,[00:04:00] become aware perhaps even of the sound of your own breathing, of your own heartbeats. I [00:05:00] want to offer you a simple one sentence prayer, and I know that you’re on mute, but perhaps I can say it once and then we can say it together, even though we are muted.
Lord, direct my whole being to your praise and to your glory,[00:06:00]
I invite you to say that with me.
Lord, direct my whole being to your praise and to your glory.
We can say it once more.
Lord, direct my whole being to your praise and to your glory.
It is the prayer that I hope will lead into some time of quiet reflection with the risen Christ.
Lord, would you please shine your light on[00:07:00] those loved, those liking, those attachments that keep me from following you wholeheartedly.
Please shine your light on those other loves and likings, attachments that keep me from following you wholeheartedly.
Perhaps we can allow Jesus, the heart surgeon [00:08:00] simply to shine the light of his own love and grace and mercy on that which keeps us from a wholehearted response to him.
Perhaps as we become aware of that, we simply notice it, we name it, and I will lead you in prayer a little later.[00:09:00]
We’ll ask Him again. Lord, will you shine your light on some of those loves and likings and attachments that keep me from following you wholeheartedly.[00:10:00] Simply allow the divine love to light up. Whatever it may be, we notice it, we know it.[00:11:00]
Here is a prayer by David Fleming:
Jesus, you remain always faithful to me. I confess that I fail to be so true in my following of you. I am myself led by what I like. I know my attachments make me less free. Strengthen me, I pray in every decision to choose to follow you ever [00:12:00] more closely. Jesus, be my power and my light.
Jesus, you remain always faithful to me. I confess that I fail to be so true in my following of you. I find myself led by what I like, I know my attachments make me less free. Strengthen me, I pray in every decision to choose to follow you ever more [00:13:00] closely. Jesus, be my power and my light. Say together, Amen.
When you’re ready, we can come together in the larger group.
Adri-Marie Thank you, Trevor. Friends, it’s good to be with you. Thank you for your grace. We had a dear family member [00:14:00] that passed away last week. So, with some discernment, I still wanted to do tonight because I did a bit of prep already, and Trevor already did some advertisements for me last time. Also, because I really do find a particular joy in doing this; in preparing as well as facilitating. So, tonight is a joyful being with you so thank you so much for your prayers and consideration.
Tonight, we are focusing on how to now give these three structured exercises. I trust that you did get the small handout that we sent. So, I’m gonna start with remembering things. I’m totally crossing back into Trevor’s lane a few times tonight because a large part is about [00:15:00] repetition and understanding what again the exercises are so that we can know how to give them and perhaps even how to adapt them.
First, we’re zooming out a little bit, and what we remember is the context of which these three are happening. They’re happening within the context of the second week of the exercises. And again, to know what the purpose of the exercises are about, always hold that a little bit close to you.
You’ll remember, even in the purpose statement of the exercises, there’s some inklings of what we can expect in these three specific exercises. It’s about our inordinate attachments; freedom, ever more open to God’s will.
So, in this context of the second week—this beautiful time where [00:16:00] we pray the same grace so deeply; and again and again, this grace that takes hold of our heart because we pray it even more than the others—to follow Jesus more closely, love more dearly, know more intimately. We get to know, and maybe you experienced it yourself, this beautiful interrelationship of the divine and the human Jesus.
It’s about this friendship and companionship and folks are praying with gospel contemplation, often really discovering it for the first time. The colloquy, this conversation, this heart to heart, and often we keep them within the imagination to have this heart to heart with Jesus. It’s always within the imagination or the context of interaction.
And of course, we know the second week in [00:17:00] some way crescendos or in some ways come together to this election. This word, election, dun, dun, duh. Maybe you didn’t do an election, dun, dun, duh, and that’s fine. Russell will talk about it next time, dun, dun, duh; don’t worry about it. This week two is in this beautiful context. We did the kingdom exercise, the hidden years, and now we’re entering into the public years, and this is where we’re finding these three key meditations.
Now a quick side note, just to say, how do we know which stories to give when regarding Jesus’s life in the second week? Quick tip on the side; just follow the source you decide to follow this year. Stick to a source and see what they do. Try it out.
Later years you might start adapting and you might think, Oh, my person [00:18:00] really associates with healing. Let me do a whole week around the healing texts of Jesus or a text around Jesus and children or Jesus’ teaching or Jesus in nature. So, after a while you might play a little bit more in the structure of how many texts you give in a week—usually give three, two repetition, a resume, application of census, that structure stays the same—busy to non-busy. Just a little tip on the side.
All right. Previously you’ve heard me speak about this kind of this conflict, but this braid really of faithfulness and adaptation. Tonight, we hold that dear again, faithful to what Ignatius meant. So, faithful so we get to know Ignatius really, and his little book and why he did put an exercise like that in—faithfulness to the [00:19:00] origins. And then we also have adaptation on the other hand, where we get to know the person in front of us and the spirit’s guidance and therefore sometimes adapt it. And of course, we get to know our supervisor in between that all.
If in doubt, involve Ignatius. Blame Ignatius if needed. Explain Ignatius if needed. Sometimes it’s good to bring Ignatius into the room. I think he’ll enjoy it, you know. It would be curious in any case, what today’s modern language he would have chosen for today. I really felt in my preparation to make a big encouragement to you when we talk about these three different exercises and all the possibilities of adaptation and a lot of that adaptation is going to lay in the language of it, really to encourage you to [00:20:00] try not to try to help too much. I hope that makes sense.
Sometimes we’re so cautious and think, “Oh my goodness, I think she’s a woman so she’s gonna see it this way” or “Oh, they didn’t like talking about Lucifer last time, so they are definitely going to bomb out this one.” You know, let’s put a bit of faith in the process, a deep encouragement to trust the process, and the God of surprises. And don’t worry too much; it’s okay. Stick to the basics, especially the first time round.
So, although we’re gonna to color the playground im possibility that maybe one day when you need it, your memory is going to be sparked and think, ‘Oh, I once heard of this, “Trust the spirit.” ‘[00:21:00] We can open the playing field but remember there’s only one first time. It’s a bit bumpy. It feels quite out of depth, but there’s only one first time. That’s the consolation. All right.
There is a deep encouragement as if you can to try and just stick to one resource. If you decide, I’m going to use Veltri or whatever you decide to use. I’m going to use the Ignatian Adventure. We’ve done resources with you.
All right, a third thing about just the foundational pieces. Just stay with what is happening in prayer. Really just a deep encouragement again. Often, we can get really lost in these dynamics and think they mentioned this example and that’s happening in their real life, and those are all aids, and the spirit is using it in beautiful ways. But if in [00:22:00] doubt, if you feel a bit overwhelmed, just remember this—stay with what is happening in the actual prayer space. That’s the cooking room and then of course there’s real life and the examen but try and just come back to what actually happened in that time. Hold memory. Try and thicken that experience. Ask a few questions to unpack it even more. Listen to the grace; how’s the grace being met. Listen very particular to the colloquy, because it’s a triple colloquy; very particular, even ask about it.
And then, most importantly, these three exercises—it’s very easy to project our own experience and theology on somebody’s experience of these. [00:23:00] So you would know in my supervision, I always encourage folks, please confess, you know. I don’t say it like that. I say it more playful but bring your confession.
You know, sometimes they might not experience. They just kind of skip over the three persons and it was for you this incredible thing. Let’s keep a curiosity and an openness. So those are things you know, but it’s necessary to mention again.
Let’s move into these three key meditations. I love what Trevor said last week, just again holding close that all of this is about more freedom and more wholeheartedness. It’s just a human fact that we are so easy to attach ourselves to lesser desires. And again, let that purpose of the [00:24:00] exercises just ring in your ears. All of this is truly about making us free, and I’ve been saying in particular, free of the deceptions so that we can be even more free and all hearted in decision making.
It’s fun reading through my notes of a few years ago, and I wrote there that Trevor said, “inordinate attachments eat intentions for breakfast.” I love that, and something about these three key Exercises kind of shadows that. Inordinate attachments eat intentions for breakfast.” It kind of helps us to see what’s the real and what’s maybe just an intention in our lives.
All right, I gave you a little picture and just to give you an idea of this movement, just to hold those [00:25:00] three key exercises close, I found this from the orientation’s notes. They say the three exercises help develop spiritual freedom. Then they mentioned the first one, the two standards are to help us to become free of deceptions.
The second, the three classes of people are for indifference, and the three humilities is for the love of Jesus. I enjoyed the imagery of this sifting through, ever refining, just becoming ever more free through this beautiful filter. It’s this image of a filter as we go through these exercises.
So, what do they have in common that you can just hold as a thread because we sense there’s something common. There’s a triple colloquy involved, [00:26:00] particularly in the first two. Very often they are given with reflection questions. We’ll get to that. Different people are giving them differently and I’m hoping to make that easier for you tonight to just explore how they are typically given.
And then, the one thing to hold very close is your rules for Discernment of Spirits. So, I won’t be like a typical teacher which I am sometimes. I have a teaching background and say, all right, we’re going to do a test. What are the rules of discernment? And especially the second set. Of course I won’t do that.
But those, just a deep encouragement, folks. When you are entering particularly into this giving of these exercises, hold them near. What you want to really access is that [00:27:00] second set in particular; those you know, the angel of light. You’ll remember there has to do with some deceptions that’s coming through. I love this phrase to say, “not all goods are equal.” So top tip for giving those key exercises is keep those Discernment of Spirit rules nearby, and if you can create a shortcut for you to remember, good.
All right. So, let’s move on to the two standards and just a little side note from me also. I’m really bargaining on my co-facilitators and mentors to share some of their experiences in giving it, especially in the chat, because that’s how we learn and how different people gave it.
The two standards—remembering that immediately this is called a meditation. So, we’ll talk about that just [00:28:00] now. The purpose, and Valtteri even particularly says this, is to free us from deception. It’s not about making choices. It’s an awareness, and if you would remember, you have Lucifer and Jesus and Lucifer up top looking down and using strategies such as riches, attachments, honor, reputation, pride.
And Jesus using strategies such as poverty, humiliation, humility, and hard work. It’s difficult to put an ad campaign together with those. Just to whet your appetite again, that’s what this is about—these two strategies. Now, if you feel yourself tingle going, hmmm, or hummf, I don’t like those words, that’s important. We’re going to get to them later.
So, you also give Soul of Christ prayer, which was a prayer dear to Ignatius. Another well-known phase is just to see that the two standards are [00:29:00] really like a tuning fork. It’s kind of looking, what is going on? What value is at play? We’re just listening; just listening to the tune.
Now, to the actual giving. The placement: where do you actually give the two standards. Now, it’s already been mentioned. In your gut feel, you would already feel “Hmmm, this has a very good resonance.” It is good friends with Jesus’s temptation in the desert. You can see some parallels, so some folks give it before or just at the end of the hidden years before the baptism and then the desert experience and some folks give it with / after, so give the baptism, then the desert, and [00:30:00] then the two standards.
The most important part of it is it’s in the beginning of the public life. So, as you transition, it’s kind of grouped more or less there in the beginning. Typically, in a 30-day retreat, you would be giving at midnight and then again on the next day, and early in the morning, but I think there’s a clue in all of this. You’ll find that Paltry gives it at the end of the week, so if you give it in the daily exercises, he gives it, planning you have the baptism, the desert, and then he gives it once. Now of course these exercises all have repetition, gives it once, then you meet with your director, and then you pray it again.
Now that’s an interesting approach to it because Veltri’s approach is let me give it as is and then I can adapt it if needed. [00:31:00] I think there’s some wisdom in it. Veltri gives it as is, the whole text, who knows if he also personally explains, we’ll get to the language bit, and then for the next week the exercitant starts again with the repetition or going further, or an adaptation of the two standards. And he does this, the same thing, with the three types of people. So that then he receives it as is, and then he adapts it, if necessary.
So, in general, you’ll see it’s a BIG exercise. Of course, there’s three preludes, the third is where the grace comes in, and then under Lucifer’s strategy, there’s three points, under Jesus’ strategy, there’s three points, and then a triple colloquy with three points, or three persons. It’s a large exercise.
So, some give the whole, [00:32:00] and then in a repetition breaks it down smaller. Some start and build it up. That’s a variety out there. Whatever your source does, remember to also follow that gut feel. Just know that there are those options.
All right, now coming to the language piece. I made language a heading for all three because this is usually where it gets a little bit tricky. So again, follow your gut instinct with all of this, but also try and stay faithful and see what happens. This is called a meditation. Now immediately your person might have a connotation with that word, positive or negative. It’s for you to explore. Sometimes we can almost do harm and over explaining. We can just say, It’s a whole inner engagement. It’s an interior engagement, and conversation with [00:33:00] Jesus is part of it. We are not doing it apart as an intellectual exercise in our minds. Sometimes these words; it’s necessary to just detangle them of other meanings.
It’s not an emptying of the mind until one word remains. It’s an inner engagement and in this, the particular two standards are imaginative, obviously around this battle that’s going on—the two standards. And regarding the language, if the person you’re guiding enjoys this idea of leadership and following, they might really enjoy this battle that’s playing of two leaders. Maybe they are strategic themselves and they would love it.
It’s also really helpful to explain just the role generally of chivalry in Ignatius’s time. Now the most important part with this language piece of the two standards is [00:34:00] you have already given yourself some clues through listening to your exercitant in the first week. If you think about it, in the first week you might have given the exercise of hell, or maybe you’ve given the exercise of the fallen angels. You’ve already had some language to negotiate there. So, remember, big part of our task of our Witnessing is about remembering. What are some of the themes that came out there?
What is the imagery that was easy for them to use? Was it easier for them to talk about their shadow, or their false self, or things that were destructive, or things that enslaved them? Continue using language then, what they are using. If they didn’t do particular language, just go ahead, you know.
Sometimes it’s very useful [00:35:00] to just explain a little bit more, especially if you use the original text or Fleming’s text. Just what is intended by these big words of like poverty, humiliation, humility, and goodness. You know, and this is a good time for us as givers to sometimes also say, listen, to just make it a safe space to say, “Oh, those are quite intense words, aren’t they?” You know, to just bring the obvious. Otherwise, your person might be sitting there, Goodness, I don’t want to pray for humiliation.” Hey, me and you both. So, you know, just try and make it a bit more accessible. Often that’s what it’s about. Just creating access that is helpful. If there’s no hindrance, go ahead especially when it comes to poverty.
There is a spiritual poverty that’s implied but remember this is about almost your poor [00:36:00] inner identity. I like Gerard Hughes. He explains spiritual poverty as follows. He says, “Spiritual poverty means a mind and a heart which so trust in God as its rock, its refuge and strength that nothing in creation can deflect from God.”
We hear something about an outpouring, finding all my value in God. It’s also good to talk about Jesus’s heart for the poor. You don’t need to skate around issues. The word humility—it’s really helpful to remember it coming from this Latin word hummus. You know, that’s probably not the right pronunciation.
That means earth. It’s about earthiness, recognizing the gift of our creatureliness. It’s a gift. Remember that phrase of the creator dealing with the creature. So, humility has more to do with our [00:37:00] earthiness. Remember that we are created and those are gifts.
Probably an easy way going into the language here is Jesus’s Beatitudes. I cannot actually recommend them enough in this time, and you’ll see that often others would include them as some of the prayer texts in this time, but if you’re really struggling with the language, remember this is about subtle deception—what is the one side use, what’s the other side use, and the Beatitudes really help us see the contrast. And sometimes it could even be helpful as an adaptation for that person to perhaps write their own version of the Beatitudes. Some other adaptations—there’s some folks, instead of giving this war and two sides, and I can’t remember what Trevor said, it’s so mushy [00:38:00] that you can’t quite see which side is which side and then we see these two strategies.
Another adaptation is some people encourage their person to make an advertising campaign, literally creating two posters, like old school when you’re in a primary school and you cut out pictures and imagery, and you would be surprised how helpful that is in identifying these two strategies. They can even draw a compass—my true north versus magnetic north—just the subtleties. Some folks find it helpful to even bring the Enneagram in again. It’s about that just small distortion that just creates a deception, which I am trying to identify once again where I’m susceptible for it.
So where can this be tricky? Once again, if a person gets stuck with elusive for a bit. [00:39:00] So again, use language there—shadow, light, life-giving, death, whatever seems useful for you. And again, even if you feel off when my theology is really sticking there, let’s trust God that God will reveal God’s self.
This is again deeply rooted in belovedness, so you can imagine for some folks to think that I, the way of Jesus, is poverty. Remember those original words, right? That you can adapt a little bit. So, for instance, the word humiliation can be dishonor perhaps or reproach or content. Those are translations used sometimes versus humiliation. You can imagine a person that’s already quite humiliated in their lives or already physically quite poor to really just gently, gently go about it, and just [00:40:00] perhaps unpack it but also trust that the spirit will do what the spirit needs to do. We don’t know what the spirit will do.
A person that’s already, perhaps according to society, and sometimes we find this in women or even in church teachings, just be humble, just be the least, and you must be obedient. So, if those movements are already present, you want to perhaps, just through discussion and ask them to go and explore together with God in conversation.
What could be some three things around the strategy of Christ? Around their identity or something physical that reaches what is perhaps a physical attachment? What is perhaps, where seeking dishonor meaning—where am I perhaps too attached to the opinions of others? Where does that show up in my life? This thing about humility, where am I still trying to [00:41:00] control, manipulate, play God in my life? To try and just make it accessible, the counter movements that can gently, that’s still accessible, but remember to keep it rooted in the belovedness. Some might say, “Oh, I’m not so tired of feeling bad.” Remember, the purpose of the exercises is greater freedom, and it’s always rooted, you’ll see so sneakily how Ignatius continues coming back to desire. I desire to follow this path of Christ that leads to life. I can see these are some of the strategies that are used.
I want to encourage you that you might find your own discomfort in this section and just to be real with it, very often you’ll see it’s actually an active prayer like “Lord, if I become too attached to my [00:42:00] stuff, even lead me into poverty.” That’s even to the extent that Teresa of Avila prayed it and sometimes that’s quite a dissonance within us. But always the encouragement to have that conversation with God, always encourage going back, bringing back their experience within a conversation with God.
All right. A lot of these principles are going to count for the last two, so let’s see. Three types of people. Remember what this is about? It’s about this freedom to commit. The first type is talk—no action. Second type, I do it all except the one thing that’s needed. The third type is I’m so willing whatever God’s desire is truly my desire. That greater glory—that’s even that first [00:43:00] prelude. It’s in the PNF. It’s truly enveloped me. So, I love how it is said about this particular exercise that this is helpful in facing our own hidden non-negotiables.
So, if you want to unpack that a little bit with your person, now what is your non negotiables? Lord, I will give everything up, but not my motorcycle—whatever. But what’s interesting about this exercise, and also for you to note and even wanting to give it, is Ignatius in particularly preludes it or introduces it as, Hey, you are given a fortune. Ignatius goes to physical things that we have, to the money thing. So, you can already know what kind of trouble can come, because Ignatius goes where most Christians are very uncomfortable to go.
So, where is this placed? [00:44:00] The three types of people, some place it directly after the two standards and then follow it with maybe the Call of Disciples, but it happens before the election or the consideration if there is a decision to be made. It’s before that, still early-ish in the public life, or let’s say in the first half of the public life, more or less. And again, it has a good friend, and it’s already been mentioned last time, many people give the rich young ruler together with this particular exercise.
You can just see how they could potentially correlate, and in giving this particular exercise, it’s helpful sometimes to acknowledge the tension within this. There is kind of three things. The first one, there’s procrastination and [00:45:00] postponing and saying, “Oh, where in my life am I doing that?” Then there’s compromise and rationalization, and perhaps, “where in my life am I doing that?” And then the third type of person has reached a space of indifference.
So instead of giving it in a way that feels like measure, this person must be like, “Oh, am I number one, number two, number three?” Sometimes it’s useful to just talk about this and say, Ignatius helps to give us language to help us be more free and see how we can perhaps recognize ourselves in all of this together with God, just to kind of normalize the tension. You know, honestly, sometimes it’s helpful to say, “Oh, it would be so lovely if I was truly indifferent.” It would be wonderful, but we’re all places where I’m procrastinating. You [00:46:00] want that meditation to infiltrate. Sometimes questions there could be helpful. Adaptations—again, your language could help you. I’ll get to that particular just now.
But I want to say that Ignatius easily goes to the physical attachment here. He starts with money. Now perhaps if that’s a trigger point to somebody again and we’re not here to theologically fix anybody, but there could be at some stage a question—what do you sense is perhaps still a physical attachment for you? He just doesn’t leave any stones unturned.
When it comes to adaptations, I found in particular Teresa of Avila helpful here, because she has this beautiful prayer that’s quite stark and shocking, but it says, “Oh God, I don’t love you. I don’t even want to love you, but I want to [00:47:00] want to love you.” Very often in these two standards or three types of persons, it could be helpful because it’s so desire-filled. Remember the grace is I ask for what I desire and then they ask for something in particular. It’s push-pull the whole time.
So, it’s helpful to sometimes frame it as what is it that you perhaps would ask to want to want. Lord, I cannot honestly say that I want to sell everything, but I want to want to get to a place of indifference. Sometimes we just could help in that saying.
Some tricky parts? Goodness me, the original one is called three classes of men. Already, I don’t even have to say anything about [00:48:00] that. So, if your text says three classes of men and you sense that’s not going to be helpful, just seek a text that says three types of persons. Three types of people are out there. Let’s use what is helpful. Again, a person could perhaps say, “You know, I don’t want to talk about money. Why does it keep going on about this? We don’t have to all be poor.” You know, because just before I remember you had the strategy of Jesus and now again, you’re saying, “Okay, you get money.” It has this adjective, sometimes a bit of an irritation feel to it sometimes, and it’s okay if your person becomes a bit irritated with you or brings in emotion. Those are beautiful things.
Our big thing is [00:49:00] to encourage somebody to bring it into conversation with God. Now, you’ll see it particularly with the first two exercises. There’s something about a psychological well-being that’s truly important. Something about a steadiness regarding our belovedness.
Once again, big option in disposition days, but it keeps coming back. If a person is so overcritical always that their self-esteem is going like this [she makes an up and down movement with her hand], or you feel there isn’t a big robust; there’s a bit of a robustness needed. We’ve spoken about this before; sometimes you might feel I’m not sure if this is going to be particularly helpful. Not for your own awkwardness, but this is really where to talk with your supervisor, about the appropriateness and the timing of exercises and [00:50:00] really pay attention to how you introduce it. Again, it’s not our job to fix it, or also don’t preempt all the experiences. We don’t know; they might experience it very wonderfully.
But just to pay a particular attention to you know, their well-being. Often people go through a healing mode through the exercises and if it is a particular place—you can feel they’re at a particular low or there’s something going on, these are quite robust in a way. They kind of have that pull, push away and draw closer element to them. Just discuss it a bit with your supervisor if you feel a little bit in your bones there’s something, and definitely in our question time afterwards, I’d love to hear a bit more. We’ll bring in some more of Annemarie’s book for her to mention particularly what could happen here [00:51:00] in this particular exercise.
So, three types of humilities. Trevor mentioned already that this word humility and love really truly does interact. It is a gift. That’s the most important thing to remember. We’re asking for a gift of this. It’s a landscape, not a letter. It’s not like, am I number one again? Or am I transitioning to number two? It’s a landscape. It’s not a letter. Any relationship isn’t just linear. It has dimensions to it. Veltri says this particular exercise, it almost attempts to help us experience the quality of intimacy with Jesus. Remember the context?
So, the first type of love is where you keep the rules. The second part is where you really want to do your best to [00:52:00] not harm but even bring joy. The third type of love is really so deeply to desire to be with Christ in all the types of experiences; then, in particular, even in tough experiences.
So, this is called a consideration. So, friends, again, when you presented the previous two meditations, sometimes we will just perhaps say a quick word about what is intended with this particular exercise. It’s a consideration, so I want to explain it as an earworm. It’s like background music that enters—you know when you have an earworm—like a song in your head, it just enters and then it kind of sticks with you.
You want to let this earworm come into the story, so the placement of some [00:53:00] it—some again, do it before the election and often they group it with even Pharisees interaction or some group it with the anger at the temple. Some even keep it for the close. It’s more like a second end towards the end of the public life, because it’s such a lovely transitional feel. It kind of helps us prepare for week three. So, it’s a blood over earworm; you’ll see how it looks in your book. It’s just like, oh, there’s these three types. You might be thinking, where’s the rest? So sometimes it’s just given to read and consider outside the formal prayer time.
You get the idea of the earworm or of sometimes it’s just discussed in your session. This is more of a conversational piece even, a little bit [00:54:00] of a to and from of these three different kinds of landscape that’s kind of coming in.
You’ll see that often it is given part as formal prayer. That’s not wrong. Again, different people are giving it in different ways. But it’s again just this placement that helps us, this commitment to Christ as a Person—the person is so relational. It’s deep in terms of the intimacy. So again, with the language we talk it through; explain It’s about a way of being. It’s about relationship. It’s not a test. It’s not a placement and it’s a gift to receive. So, we’re asking for this gift in relationship of intimacy.
We’re really wondering kind of in the background, what is feeling my love? What is perhaps [00:55:00] limiting my love? Some adaptations—one of the persons I know of a lot of adaptations, apart from how I said in terms of the placement again, the physical naming three types of humilities, some call it three types of love.
That’s one of the key adaptations is just imagining this, if it is appropriate to the person, almost paralleling it to an intimate romantic relationship. So, let’s say in a sacred marriage partnership on the first level, there’s certain rules that apply. Let’s not cheat on one another. Let’s not speak when we’re angry. You know, there’s some rules or basic rules. That’s the first type.
Second type is basically, [00:56:00] it makes you happy when the other person is happy. So, you try and leave little notes in their shoes or whatever that particular thing is—you get to know them in particular ways. What makes their heart glad? It’s beautiful. Both are beautiful.
And then there’s a third type landscape that sometimes we are willing to suffer alongside the ones we love. It’s just the ever intimacy, this play, always at play, and it’s this invitation to relationship. So again, there’s something about maybe the Peter in us that can come in and say to Jesus, “Hey, I will, it’s fine, Jesus, I will die for you,” you know? So sometimes it’s about just slowing a person down and to perhaps explore where are some of the other types of love present as well or not getting stuck too much on the word [00:57:00] humility again.
So again, we just guide them with language and make sure that it’s not a measure of self because again, you can see if the self isn’t rooted in that belovedness, we can go into, “I don’t even know why God gives me the time; I’m so unfaithful.” You can just see, I’m obviously being a bit dramatic. You will feel if it’s coming from a place of consolation or not. Our big thing is keeping Christ at the center of these exercises, and then our relationship within. I’ll do one more minute just to say let’s remember again, so we always cycle through.
Stick to the basics. Just follow one source for a while and see how it goes. There could be some really good reflection questions that are [00:58:00] available that just helps to give it width. towards a repetition but remember for them to do it always in conversation with Jesus.
Things like, what is my vulnerability? How can I most likely be deceived? Where can my good intentions be used against me? And again, use confession when it comes to your supervision. Just bring a bit of humor in all of this, you know because it is a bit of our own shadow that plays in as well and remember, any intimate relationship has a dynamic of attraction and resisting. Attract, resist, and then almost just to help normalize it, but to work with the deepest, deepest, deepest desire, deepest desire, to become ever free to follow Jesus closer, know Him [00:59:00] deeper, or love Him deeper, know Him more intimately.
All right, friends, That was a lot. I just covered some pieces, so I’m going to trust the conversation will bring out some of the other experiences. My hope was to just place the exercises for you and put different considerations that you can follow. We’ll talk about more tricky parts after the break. So, Annemarie, we are breaking until?
Annemarie: Until 15 minutes past the hour, and then we’ll come back after half an hour. So, if you come back 15 minutes past the hour now.
Adri-Marie: Perfect. Thanks. [01:00:00] Welcome back. We’re still coming back. Welcome back, everybody. We trust that that was a good time of connecting, and trust that there’s some wonderings you’d like to share or some questions or observations. So, but before we open the floor a little bit for questions, I thought it would be good to ask Annemarie [01:01:00] just some of the things that came out from her book specifically regarding women in these three key exercises. So, I did put her on a little bit on the spot, but thanks Annemarie, maybe just some of your contributions.
Annemarie: Sure. Yeah, I think if we start with that two standards meditation, obviously for some women, the battle imagery is not particularly inviting or helpful. Adri-Marie did say, however, that sometimes it can be a life-giving space for some women. I must say I was very struck by someone that I once took through the Exercises who loved that battle imagery and used it in a totally different way, and I want to actually just share with you what she said about it. I’m reading from her, quoting from her. She said,
I came to the field from the hill above and so [01:02:00] I had a bird’s eye view. And from there, Satan’s army looked orderly and efficient.
It was formed in lines. But Christ’s army seemed disorganized and not army like. It was shaped like an amoeba under a microscope, moving in and out, and the soldiers were all moving in and out in what seemed a random way. And in the center of the field, there were many people sitting on a line drawn in the middle.
At last, we came to the center of the army, and there was a glowing light, amoeba shaped, and I just knew that God was there. And with Jesus, I went into the center and became one with God and as that happened, I felt the army slash amiibo move outwards and I knew we had gained ground in the battle. This prayer was a turning point, and most subsequent prayers carried the same theme of going into the center of God.
This is where I found my personal vocation, and this prayer continues to sustain me.
So, it’s quite interesting how that imagery actually was very [01:03:00] powerful for her, even though it was battle imagery. So, kind of maybe not instantaneously throwing it out, but being aware that it can be unhelpful. When I give the two standards, I usually kind of try to give questions. What strategies in your life have you noticed the good spirit using? What strategies have you noticed the bad spirit using? And try to kind of get that kind of reflection going, which doesn’t necessarily need the battle imagery if that’s not going to be helpful for the person. I love in the one on the three classes, there’s a wonderful article by a woman called Barbara Bedilla, and she talks about a kind of reframing of it that makes a lot of sense to me. She says you can think of the three classes of persons with the example of the kinds of responses a person might make when they’re asked to help with an important project. So, if you go to someone and say, I’ve got a huge project that I need help with would [01:04:00] you be willing?
The first kind of people might say, I want to help, but I can’t commit now. So, the kind of procrastinators; I’m sorry, I can’t commit at the moment. The second people are very happy to help, but they want to help the way they want to help. They’re happy to be in the limelight, but they don’t want to be stuffing the envelopes. So, if there’s kind of a conditionality around how they help with this particular project. And the third response is an open hearted, generous, what do you need? I’ll do whatever would be helpful. There’s a kind of open endedness of freedom to that kind of response. And I think that’s an example that often women can relate to because they’re often asked to help with projects or be on a committee or whatever and those ways might kind of clarify a little bit some of the kinds of ways of responding.
I really like re naming as Fleming does, the three kinds of humility exercise [01:05:00] as the three ways of loving. Because I think that that puts the weight on the loving rather than the humility part. I think that for many women that can be a more helpful, inviting kind of title to use.
I think it’s also something about helping someone to see that loving can be costly, that the third way of loving is about the cost that we don’t mind. So, I think about, and I sometimes use this example, a friend of mine, whose 14-year-old daughter has a rare and undiagnosable illness. She needs a feeding tube 24 seven. She’s been in hospital 80 percent of her life, and her mother’s love for her is such that she sits beside her bed every day. She takes her to hospital. She does whatever is needed because that’s what that wholehearted kind of loving is about. Yes, there is suffering involved, but there’s nowhere else she would rather be because she loves her daughter and to be with her is [01:06:00] the desire of her heart.
So, that kind of sense that when we love Jesus in that third way of loving, when we are wanting to be like Christ, to follow Him, there is a cost to that. There is a struggle sometimes in that loving, but there is a desire nonetheless, despite the cost to love, because the relationship is what is so important.
I think often the example of a marriage can be helpful too for people who have a marriage that is a deep love that has lasted a long time. You kind of get the sense that the ways in which a loving couple relate, you can kind of see in those three levels or three layers of loving.
I think it’s quite important to kind of think about the stuff of upward and downward mobility in relation to all three of those kinds of exercises. So, for example you know Ignatius talks about things like [01:07:00] power and riches and all of those kinds of things. And if you look at something like the two standards meditation because many women or people who are in situations who are coming from a place where they have less power or less advantage, less privilege, there’s a sense in which the temptations or the attachments may be different. You have to kind of remember that Ignatius was coming out of a particular place where he was part of the nobility where he had privilege, where he had riches, where he had power, and so those were precisely the things that were going to hook him.
But the things that are going to hook someone coming from another kind of space where they don’t have those things may be different. A cunning strategy for example, a woman in that kind of space could be to lead her first to hiding or to over sacrificing and then from there to resentment [01:08:00] and from resentment to burnout. So there can be other kind of pathways that the bad spirit can use that don’t necessarily follow the classical one that Ignatius is putting out there. So, you want to kind of just be quite sensitive to that, because you don’t want to entrench something further that is unhelpful for that person.
Another way is thinking about language, and Audri-Marie has highlighted this, but, you know, a word can be better thought of and unpacked around the truth of a person’s experience, their limitations, their giftedness and helping them to get in touch with that. There are other words as well. Poverty—we’re not being called to an abject poverty that is like living in slums or in informal settlements or in that kind of space. That’s not what this is about. It’s about a simplicity [01:09:00] that gives a freedom to serve and to hold with open hands. So sometimes replacing the word poverty in some contexts with the word simplicity might be more helpful.
Those are some of the things that I would think about. I think also to be aware that sometimes women these days have a lot of privilege in which women in some contexts have a lot of those things. And so, in that case they may also find a pathway to freedom through downward mobility like Ignatius outlines. You have to really be thinking about this individual woman, this particular person, their history, their background, what’s going on for them.
When you’re thinking about attachments, though, think broadly; sometimes there can be an attachment to people pleasing. There can be an attachment to a kind of false humility. We’re trying to [01:10:00] say, what are the things that get in the way of freedom? That’s the core of it, to try with that person to co-discern what are those obstacles to freedom. That’s really the pathway. So maybe I’ll stop there, Adri-Marie, for the moment.
Adri-Marie: Thanks, Annemarie. That’s very powerful to add that upwardly or downwardly mobile. Friends, questions, wonderings, the floor is open. Let’s see what happens. Love to hear from you.
What’s become clearer? Or even where [01:11:00] could you resonate with that dissonance in language? Anything interesting in the discussion, Shirley?
Shirley: This is for Annemarie. I’ve heard other people say this as well—changing, renaming the three kinds of humility into the three ways of loving. My question is, do you have to define the word love? What comes back at me is loving in our society—I guess humility has a different, a much more negative response and in some ways, I feel like it would get to the heart issue faster than three ways of loving. How would you define that? Or how do you take that if you understand what I mean? Does that make sense?
Annemarie: You know, I, I think for me it’s [01:12:00] that humility is not the goal here. It’s a depth of relationship that is the objective. It’s taking the person to open themselves to a deeper and deeper wholeheartedness. and response in loving. So that’s why I like the word loving.
Maybe you’re right, but maybe we do have to talk about, what is love, because the word love can be misused in our context in all kinds of ways. You know, we don’t have one definition of what love is. It’s also a word that’s up there for grabs, so I think you make a really good point there.
I do think that the word humility in our context for men and women is one that needs to be carefully explained and unpacked because humility can easily be seen as something to do with making myself less, making myself smaller, hiding a kind [01:13:00] of sense of I shouldn’t be seen. I shouldn’t be myself, and that kind of clashes with the whole thing in the Principle and Foundation of truly becoming the fullness of who we’re made to be. So, I think that that misinterpretation can be unhelpful. I think if you think that the word humility is going to be helpful for that person, just to kind of unpack it a little bit and talk about what we mean by humility as a kind of radical openness and honesty, rather than as something that is about being made to feel unworthy or less than or not okay, which I think is not what Ignatius is really wanting us ultimately to get to. That’s just my thought. I’m not sure what others on the team might have to say. Does that help at all, Shirley?[01:14:00]
Adri-Marie: Trevor, would you like to add something?
Trevor: Not at this point.
Adri-Marie: I guess I will just mention that we can trust by then that they’ve been soaked in this idea of grace, colloquy and if a tricky word comes up, we deal with it in a conversation. By then there’s so much rapport, they’ve really been in depth in the Ignatian world, so it takes to the imagination because they’re really soaked into kind of the world of Ignatius by then. Thank you for that Shirley.
Jaco? I saw you unmuted, so I don’t know if you just unmuted or if there was something you’d like to share.
Jaco: Gladly. Yeah, we had the joy [01:15:00] of having our small group discussion with Kathi leading us and she explained with the three kinds of people. Instead of asking, am I this or am I this, how do I compromise? How do I rationalize? So, in such a manner, you can see there’s a little bit of you in every one of those specific persons mentioned, and it shines the light on that specific part. What is happening here? And how am I still like this in that respect? That was very helpful, and we wanted to share that.
Adri-Marie: Thank you, Jaco. That’s where it is worth a look there at some of those reflection questions that I mentioned, and Kathi brings together quite a few of them. So, thank you for that gift again, Kathi, and thanks for sharing, Jaco. Elizabeth. [01:16:00]
Elizabeth: Yes, thank you. Adri-Marie, I appreciated your encouragement as we’re listening to the retreatant to focus on what’s actually happening in her time of prayer and to draw that out and ask more, and you mentioned specifically the triple colloquy. My first thought is, but I struggle with the triple colloquy. I don’t really know how to experience it myself, and I don’t know whether this may not be the time you all want to address that. Maybe I’m the only one on the call who has this feeling. This progression of beginning with the Virgin Mary and then asking her to ask Jesus and asking them to come with me—I want to want to be there, but I’m not there.
Adri-Marie: [01:17:00] Wonderful. Thank you for bringing that question. I didn’t even properly get to the triple colloquy so I’m very grateful for that and I’m going to pass it on very soon to my colleagues.
Elizabeth, I hope you saw the nodding of heads as you were speaking. There’s some agreement that it’s not necessarily this wonderful colloquy for everybody.
So. within the context, again, every person is so beautifully unique, and we always meet them where they are. I love how Ignatius—it’s almost like he’s always helping us to see we’re not alone. I always get this idea with the triple colloquy that everybody’s rooting for us, you know? And I always get a sense that we almost reveal a different part of ourselves. [01:18:00] Let’s take it for now for the Trinity. The most typical adaptation of the triple colloquy—if somebody is finding it difficult to speak to Mary is to simply do it according to the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, the Son, and the Father. And perhaps, if that’s a tricky way to start where you are comfortable.
I think we have an opportunity, early on to help explore the Trinity with our persons. So really pay attention to the incarnation. What is happening in that space, just from the point of a guide. But I want to just say it’s okay if it doesn’t come naturally. It is this idea of going to the One, asking, going to the other. It’s kind of like we’re adding layers, which is typical of Ignatian spirituality—we are [01:19:00] really having the best, we’re cheering on our persons, and it’s almost that feel of community, of even more cheering on your behalf. It’s this asking on your behalf, cheering you on your behalf. So, let me tag Trevor and then Anne Marie for some more explanation.
Trevor: Adri-Marie, I think you’ve done the major adaptation of the triple colloquy in terms of Mary and the Holy Spirit and responding to Elizabeth.
I think there are two other thoughts that come to my own mind, and I’m sharing this with respect for your struggle and not trying to talk you into anything. I think one of the gifts for me of the colloquy is just the deepening of intensity as [01:20:00] I kind of return to what I’m asking and I’m returning now with this request to another person in the Trinity.
So, I think one of the gifts of the triple colloquy, if it does finally land in someone’s life, for me is the level of intensity. And I think on the other hand, I think the other possible gift, when it goes with the adaptation is a sense of Trinitarian prayer. That sometimes for some people has been a very deep experience.
I think if we were in a one-on-one conversation, Elizabeth, I would love to explore with you a little bit more the difficulty that you internally experience in terms of praying the triple [01:21:00] colloquy, because I’m sure that would also shape my own response a little bit more specifically.
I think also ultimately, I want to land in the place where Adri-Marie shared—to use what helps and to avoid what hinders. I think that for me is a very deep kind of Ignatian value, that ultimately, I’m going to use what deepens this person’s experience of prayer, and I will avoid what hinders it. I think that would involve a relatively exploratory conversation with you in terms of what is difficult.
Adri-Marie: Thanks, Trevor. Annemarie?
Annemarie: I think that one of the things that for me is a gift in the triple colloquy, and I’m [01:22:00] thinking of it now in its classic form in terms of Mary, Jesus, and then going to the Father. Two gifts—the one is a sense of the kind of solemnity of it, that the triple colloquy only kind of comes up in the places for prayer that Ignatius really wants to say, ”This is a big moment. This is a very special time.” So, it’s almost like there’s a there’s a heightened sense of solemnity about it that I think is powerful. I’ve had the experience, and I think the adaptation with the Trinity is a very valid one. But there’s also something very powerful about the sense of Mary as one who is like me. She is human like me. So, I can go to another person as a friend, who knows Jesus, who loves him also, because she’s had that intimate relationship with him but she’s a [01:23:00] human being and talk to her one on one about what I’m grappling with, what I’m trying to figure out, how I could ask for help, and almost a sense of her support in coming with me.
And then, Jesus is both human and divine. You’ve got the human element and the God part united together, and there’s that next place. Then a bridge into going to God as Father who is the fullness of the divinity and is obviously shared in the Trinity, but there’s this kind of sense of getting deeper and deeper into this asking. I think that can be really powerful.
I’ve had a number of conversations with women in the research that I did particularly who came from backgrounds where they were really not comfortable with Mary because it was just very much not part of their tradition who kind of said, I’m really glad I [01:24:00] persevered with this because actually once there was a breakthrough, Mary has become a kind of a friend of the Lord, you know—someone who is with me on my journey as a friend like my other close friends who walk with me on the journey but with a special intimacy with Jesus.
I wouldn’t be too quick to throw Mary out without giving it a chance to see if something takes. I’ll send you a little bit out of a chapter around that where there’s some sharing around this whole thing of Mary and particularly people coming from backgrounds who aren’t too comfortable initially with that and just maybe offer it as something to ponder and see whether it at all resonates without pushing it in any way.
I also think it’s quite interesting how I realized in [01:25:00] Spain when we went there recently, how strongly Ignatius’s world has the influence of Mary, so there is something of that going on as well so just being aware that culturally there’s something happening there. I know that Russell in his immersion experience has had to go and just speak to the bishop and suddenly had quite a lot of insights around this. So, if he’s got some other insights that we haven’t shared, I will make sure that he puts them on paper or shares them next week because he came back very excited about a couple of new thoughts on the triple colloquy, and I don’t know what they are because he hasn’t shared them with me yet.
Adri-Marie: Thanks, Annemarie. I’m going to make a note of that extra for Russell’s sake. We’re giving him some homework. Wonderful.
And just a general encouragement again, we never know what is going to land with [01:26:00] who. You might think, well, Mary is particularly going to work for a woman, or it won’t work with Protestants, just the other day, a male Protestant pastor said to me it was just transformative for him to do the triple colloquy in speaking first to Mary, et cetera, because he just tried it first. I think that’s where maybe Vetri gives us a gift of try it and then adapt, and let me just ask Elizabeth, how are you with that?
Elizabeth: That is all tremendously helpful. I’m really grateful. Thank you.
Adri-Marie: Wonderful. Diana, good to see you.
Diana: That was really helpful. My question is more practical or technical. As we’re leading a retreatant and they really are struggling with one of these [01:27:00] exercises or the colloquy, is the recommendation is to let them try it and then adapt it and just help them to stay with it until the grace is received? I think the temptation for me would be like, this is not working so let’s just move on to the next exercise. So, what would be the approach when we encounter difficulty?
Adri-Marie: I think it’s wonderful your suggestion about tries and then adapt. I think this is whereas the giver, take particular care to perhaps just wonder what could be some helpful aids in reflection as I give this exercise to just help in conversation. So, I [01:28:00] think to always just wonder together what is happening in their conversation with God. The colloquy, because it’s a meditation, all of it can then happen in here or just for us to perhaps a particular note, what is again happening in the prayer? How did that feel? Is it perhaps the resistance?
Remember, I mentioned that it’s normal for us to feel the attraction and the resistance, particularly within these three exercises of, we’re almost sometimes fighting something in ourselves that sometimes is just projected in the session. So, provide a safe space, wonder together; tell me more about, were you able to talk with God about it? Talk a little bit perhaps about the triple colloquy or wonder, what is that like? Maybe something about the want to [01:29:00] want and obviously, we’re not there to strong arm them into the grace but. Usually there is something that’s just breaking open.
Remember, it’s an ask of God and then see how there’s a response. So, we’re wondering together; in what way do you feel this grace has perhaps been met this week? And perhaps that could be met in a way strange way that we didn’t expect. I wonder if Trevor, Annemarie, if you’d like to add?
Annemarie: In some sense, It’s good to give the exercise and as you’re giving it to kind of talk it through a little bit for the person, but not too much. Then when they come back, if they’ve struggled to maybe unpack what was difficult about that because people come to different places of struggle within these meditations or contemplations and [01:30:00] considerations and whatever. We’re in meditations at the moment.
So, you don’t quite know how to adapt until you’ve understood what it is that they’re struggling with. So if they’re struggling with something It may be that you just send them back to stay with it for another while because it’s just something that needs more space, more time, more repetition or maybe that there’s something about the exercise that it jars so much that you need to adapt it a bit more and be more creative about how you approach it. Generally, kind of trusting and staying with the process until the grace is received, even if you’re having to make modifications and adaptations. Don’t panic if it doesn’t land the first time. Yeah, Just be with it.
Trevor: I was going to just underline that sometimes repetition [01:31:00] is to a place where I feel a bit stuck as well as a place where I feel consoled. I think the other gift at a time like this could be supervision as well. My own experience when I’m feeling not too sure about what to do and I think Supervision can also be a wonderful gift for myself in that moment.
Adri-Marie: Yeah. Maybe there’s something that’s such a big trigger that suddenly there’s an open wound. That is what supervision is for. Some of these echoes you will find in week one. Usually, you will pick up [01:32:00] something perhaps already in week one or even disposition days. It’s very rare that later on it’s such a big wound that’s suddenly open that’s never been attended to, but luckily, yes, that’s what supervision is for. We can trust the process and the spirit, same time, faithfulness, adaptation.
Any maybe last wondering or sharing before we gently land. Is it seeming a little bit more clear?
Annemarie: Maybe I can just say that I think that for me, and it may be true for others too, these [01:33:00] two meditations and the consideration, every time I give the exercises, I have to go back and kind of re clarify the process for myself and think through those meditations again. It takes quite a while to get it into your bones, and I think we’re constantly needing to go back and revisit and go, “Oh yeah, that’s what we’re trying to do here.” There are nuances and things that we keep having to go back to and we keep understanding it more and more as we give the exercises and as we revisit them perhaps more than any other place in the exercise.
Adri-Marie: Trevor, any last something from your side?
Trevor: Thank you, Adri-Marie. This has been really helpful., 01:34:00]
Adri-Marie: Thank you. Annemarie, I’m not sure who’s landing us.
Annemarie: Thanks, Adri-Marie. We’re going to hand over to Kathi, who’s going to lead us in some prayer.
Kathi: Thank you. Okay, let’s just take a moment and just close your eyes.
Just pay attention to your breath, and I’ll just give a couple moments of silence, and then I’ll close this in prayer. So, if there’s anything on your heart that you want to speak to the Lord about, please do.[01:35:00]
Loving and holy God, thank you that you continuously invite us into relationship with you.
Thank you that you lead us. into more and more freedom.
I think sometimes we may feel overwhelmed or inadequate, yet you look upon us with your loving smile. Help us to continue to trust you in our own lives and help us to continue to trust your work through each one of us.
Draw us deeper and deeper into freedom [01:36:00] and into loving relationship with you.
We commit ourselves and one another in Jesus’ name. Amen.
Annemarie: Amen. Thank you, Kathi. Thank you, Adri-Marie. We’ll see you all next week.
Adri-Marie: Thanks, everybody.
Annemarie: Take care. God bless.