IGNATIAN SPIRITUAL EXERCISES TRAINING (ISET)
2023-BLOCK ONE – SESSION 9
DISPOSITION DAYS
Annemarie: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] Hello, everybody. Welcome once again to yet Another screen time with each other—the screen community. It’s good to see all your faces again. I’m going to hand over to Trevor who’s going to lead us in prayer.
Trevor: How very special to be with each of you. So ,good morning, good day, good evening to you wherever you may be.
You may want to switch off your screen. I’m sure that by now you have a sense of how we like to invite you into the into the quiet, into the silence, and my suggestion is that you make yourself at home comfortably—with a posture that is alert, aware, awake.[00:02:00]
I often find it helpful to become quiet by listening to the sounds outside of the room that I’m sitting in. First of all, the sounds outside. You may want to listen to those sounds for a few moments. You may like to listen to some of the sounds that are within the building or the house or the office that you’re sitting in right now merely to become aware, alert, awake.[00:03:00]
What I want to do very simply as we ask God to touch our lives in this time of devotion is to read a very simple poem to you and I have one or two wondering questions afterwards for us to ponder.
It takes time to bake a loaf of bread, to grind, to knead, to wait. It takes time for friends to break. and to share their lives. It takes time to be alone, to become one’s intimate friend. [00:04:00] Time for the hidden stream to fill the empty well. It takes time to still within and merge with life. Time in the wild to slow you down. It takes time to be with pain, to let the healing have its way. Time in the darkness to trust the dawn. It takes time to let your life be turned around, to accept a vision’s death. Time in the void to see with different eyes. It takes time to tend a crop of grain, [00:05:00] to plow, to sow, to wander. Time for our love to ripen and be harvested.
I’m going to read it once more.
It takes time to bake a loaf of bread, to grind and to knead and to wait. Time for friends to break and to share their lives. It takes time to be alone, to become one’s intimate friend. Time for the hidden stream to fill the empty well. It takes time to [00:06:00] still within and merge with light. I’m in the wild to slow you down. It takes time to be with pain, to let the healing have its way. I’m in the darkness. To trust the dawn. It takes time to let your life be turned around. To accept a vision’s death. I’m in the void. To see with different eyes. It takes time to tend a crop of grain, to plow, to sow, to wonder. Time for our love to ripen and to be harvested.
And[00:07:00] so, I’m wondering today, in this moment,
In what way you, I, need time?
In what way do we need time in our relationship with ourselves, our own pain and griefs and sadnesses?
In what ways do we need [00:08:00] time in our relationships with those around about us? Especially in those relationships, perhaps, which struggle, that need to be renewed and refreshed.
I’m wondering how we need time in our relationship with God for the hidden streams of that relationship to flow a little bit more freshly, strongly. deeply.[00:09:00]
You may like to take a few moments just quietly to share your heart as one friend does with another with the Lord about your need for time and the kind of time that you need right now.[00:10:00]
So, Lord, we offer what is on our heart today to you. We offer it with all the love and longing of our own hearts,[00:11:00] how our need for time takes shape right now in our own lives, our relationships with others and with you and draw us today as we journey in this session into a deep awareness of how the exercises also take time. In the name of Christ our Lord. Amen.
Russell: Thank you, Trevor, for that. Praying that tonight this time would be one of blessing for us. I’m going to hand over to Adri-Marie, who is going to lead us this evening [00:12:00] on the disposition days.
Adri-Marie: Thanks, Russell and Trevor and a warm hello to everybody. I love talking about disposition days. I really love talking about disposition days, because they are really the foundation, and we do know this in our gut, that when we set the foundation in a good way, things tend to stand a bit longer. So today and tonight and this morning is really about the foundations.
So, what are disposition days? It’s really the preparation time for the exercises. It’s the stuff before the Principle and Foundation (PNF). It’s the easing into. It’s the warmup time. It’s a leisurely time. It’s really a bit of a [00:13:00] coaching time in some way. It’s really a guiding time. It’s a getting to know time.
But I thought. to frame it really around this word disposition—because if you’re like me, and English is your second language, you sometimes have to Google words. So, I googled disposition and then it gave me these two definitions and I loved it because it helps us frame the things we need to pay attention to and listen to in the disposition days.
So, disposition on the one hand –and I hope you have those notes and if you want to tonight just actually take it in, you’re really welcome to—I will email my notes to you afterwards if that’s more helpful for you to be present.
So, the first definition of a disposition is a person’s inherent qualities of mind and character. I love this example. They say your sunny [00:14:00] disposition; I love that. It’s the person’s essence, the way they show up, their character, how they are made up, the humor, mentality, all of those things. That’s the one side, disposition, the way the person is, how they show up. So. on the one side, we’re going to listen to the person, and they’re make up the way they are.
Now on the other side, disposition can mean the way in which something is placed or arranged, especially in relation to other things. So, the plan shows the disposition of the rooms. I love that because again, disposition days is about arrangements. It’s about what’s happening. in the relation between things. And the things are between the two of you—you and your person—and the practicalities around the exercises.
Alright, so we’re on the one side, the disposition of the person, and this position [00:15:00] around arrangement of things and the relationship between us, and that’s what we’re going to really frame tonight around. I’m going to get to five points in each of those to just pay attention to, things to give time to focus on, etc. in the disposition days.
But first, let’s say, why are they important? Why is it a good thing to take some time before you say, ready, steady, go, here’s the PNF, here’s week one, two, three, four, let’s go. Why is it good to take your time?
First, it’s truly just to discern the person’s readiness. Is this the right thing at the right time? Is this the right thing at the right time? Because sometimes it’s a really good thing, but the timing isn’t quite right. And perhaps the time is really [00:16:00] for some real growth, but is the exercise is really the thing—the gift for this particular time? So that’s what you’re really discerning. We already know the exercises can be wonderful, but it’s not necessarily the “be all” and “end all” for every single next step in life. Is it the right thing at the right time?
Now, why do we want to discern? I would say basically to avoid some injury and the reference I’d like to make is—look, I grew up in a very athletic family. My dad really coached my mom in athletics, and she was a springbok hurdler, a national hurdler. So, you’re going to get some athletic references because I think it’s truly relevant. If you were training for a very big ultra marathon—for those in the room who really love running—let’s say you want to enter the Comrades Marathon, a famous South African race, that’s 89 [00:17:00] kilometers long, 55 miles.
You would not just say, “All right, we’re starting next week, let’s go.” Somebody’s gonna get injured. It’s just how it is. The same thing for the exercises. It’s very, very, very rare to meet somebody that already has a lot of space in their lives, they have such set rhythms, they already know all the different ways of praying, and that exercise is required. I’m telling you, of everybody I’ve guided thus far, I have met my first person who’s fairly fit before we start. All the others really need a bit of training. We need to buy some shoes, start with a bit of walking, then some 5k, then you kind of buildup. So why are you discerning readiness? Because you want to avoid injury. You can literally pull a spiritual muscle and then be put off for [00:18:00] the rest of your life.
So, the next thing we really just want to avoid hurt and disappointment. We want to take our time to really figure out again, is this the right thing for the right time? What is the expectation from both sides? And I even mean your hurt and disappointment. Very often, it’s the givers that’s sitting with, “Oh, I can’t believe this person stopped just like that,” and sometimes, I would actually say very often, there’s an exit because we weren’t leisurely about the disposition days to really take our time. Is this the right thing at the right time for this particular person?
The second reason is why is it important? Because Ignatius did so. We have this [00:19:00] beautiful example of a person called Pierre Favre, and I’m sure I’m not entirely pronouncing that correctly—a very, very gifted giver of the exercises that Ignatius himself took through the exercises and from the notes we read, it seems like he was a in a type of disposition days for about four years. Talk about a warmup. You know, if you want to give a go and run the comrade’s ultramarathon. sometimes it takes some time. Now, please don’t stress. It’s more or less, we’ll get your timings. It doesn’t take four years usually. All right; okay.
Let me answer that question. So, how long does it take, Adri-Marie? Veltry sets a few weeks. Veltry is a particular resource that’s actually very helpful for a first a time giver. It helps you guide the weeks. He proposes six weeks. It’s not a paint by numbers. We’re [00:20:00] gonna hear together what are you listening to, but it can take between six weeks; it can take three months; it can take a bit longer, so that, but we’ll cover what kind of needs to be covered in that time and then you discern the timing of it. If you really had to ask me how long does it take, Adri- Marie, then I’ll refer to that beautiful poem—it takes time. And I’d like to tell you it takes as long as it takes. That’s my answer, really. That’s my real answer. It takes as long as it takes.
So, before we’re gonna look at the specific things we’re looking for and listening for, I’d like to just remind you that when you start with somebody, please remember that they are a beginner. What I say by it is they’re not supposed to do everything and know everything. It is [00:21:00] your responsibility to gently walk a pace that is sustainable. They’re a beginner and for your own self to have a beginner’s mind. Not like you have to do this prayer and this prayer and then total overwhelm.
Remember, also, it’s not a test. It’s not like “oh, you totally didn’t pass the disposition day, sorry for you.” It’s a discernment. Do you feel the difference? It’s a co-discernment even. It’s not just that person decides, or you decide, it’s this beautiful weave; and as you listen together and as you share the information and start building relationship, there will be a co-discerning. It’s not a test. I love how Ted Lopez said it. He says, Its days marked by a redemptive talking and fervent [00:22:00] listening. I love that, and fervent listening. It’s a discerning type being together.
Now, remember, my reference to six weeks, three months, et cetera, are in daily life. Part of it will happen before a 30-day retreat. It’s obviously vital. You don’t want to bring somebody out for 30 days without discerning properly. So, the same markers count. All right, let’s dig into them.
So, there’s some things we’re listening to in the person and some practicalities, some dispositions in the person, how the person is, and disposition of practicalities.
The first one in the person is simply what brought you here. It’s such a lovely conversation and you know what? You can have this. a few times. Because, the first time somebody responds to the second conversation, [00:23:00] what are you looking for? You’re looking for desire. What are they desiring from this process? They’re saying yes to something; they might not entirely know what they’re saying yes to. What is the desire that is pulling them, inviting them? And I always really ask somebody to write that down. It is the most beautiful thing to, right at the end of the exercises, return to this original desire, and I want to encourage you as well to write it down.
Desire is the dynamo. It’s the fuel, and if the desire is influenced by things like obligation or somebody told me to, or I must do this as part of a course, you have to really listen very carefully to the desire. The desire can still be strong, even if it’s part of some kind of obligation or peer pressure. I’m [00:24:00] doing it because all my friends have done it, and they say it’s wonderful. The desire can still be beautiful and strong, but we need to feel it in our bones. Usually the desire sounds something like, I really desire intimacy with God, to grow my relationship with God, something around the closeness. Something about the closeness. The desire is the fuel. What brought you here?
Also just to listen to what stirs—I’m going to refer to often—in your bones, because desire has a quality to it. When somebody talks about their desire, there is something that we feel, that we pick up in our being and so we turn to it, and you might at some stage almost carry the banner of their [00:25:00] memory of the desire for that person or remind them of the desire. That’s important to take note.
So, on a practical level, you need to explain what the exercises are. I tell you, if you can roleplay and do that a few times for yourself in the mirror, you won’t waste your time. It’s quite something to explain. What are the exercises? Sometimes you find it’s part of a community and maybe there was already some imagination. Sometimes you’re going to need to explain without any background. Then it’s very helpful to tell the person a little bit about Ignatius and where it comes from, etc.
Now again, you might speak to a person that has no exposure even to the Catholic world or who knows who Ignatius is, so here it is important to choose your words. carefully. You need to explain what your role is as the giver; what it will be. It’s not a [00:26:00] friendship.
It’s a weekly meet. Oh, my goodness, the time commitment involved especially in daily life. It’s about an hour a day—two prayer times, one short one, one long one. You’re going to need to explain that you’ll see each other weekly. It takes as long as it takes, but it could be any time, more or less between nine months and 12 months in daily life. It could be longer, could be a little bit shorter, but it takes as long as it takes. You’re gonna need to explain you’re going for supervision, but it will be confidential.
And then this important point. I cannot over accentuate this enough—the invitation for this to be the main horse in their life. What I mean by it is, this will be the horse that pulls the cart in their life, in terms of their primary mode of prayer and their primary process regarding connecting with [00:27:00] God. I think we touched on this a little bit before in terms of even the seasons in terms of church liturgy. Perhaps there’s somebody who really celebrates Lent and you’re going to need to just explain to them that this is going to become your primary process.
And even things, if it’s somebody who really loves reading to say that is wonderful, but also for them to check with you what they’re reading. Why? Because you might be praying a specific grace in a specific direction. Let’s take week three, for example or week one. They’re praying for this loved sinner, the real sorrow about my shadow self and imagine they’re reading a book on joy or the resurrection, while they’re in week one. Those are just gentle things, and you as a giver [00:28:00] can practice perhaps and even write down some phrases for yourself, how to communicate these things, not as, “these are the rules and welcome to my classroom,” but more these are the rhythms. This is how the exercises work at their best. This is what the exercisers entail. This is the culture, the holding cell for holding rhythms for the exercises.
Now of course you don’t have to rush all that information off in 10 minutes. You can already see how we take a little bit more time to get to those topics to find your own way to explain this.
Now, the second one, you will hear this very often and your supervisor will most probably ask you, are you experiencing and hearing [00:29:00] an openness and generosity? This is annotation number five. You remember those annotations we went through? Vital! Ignatius says what we are hoping for and listening for and cheering on for in our person is openness and generosity.
Now, what are those things? Openness is really about a willingness to participate and to share and a willingness to share whatever is possible for them at that moment. It’s not necessarily that your person will just come out with everything, but in your sense, there’s a willingness to disclose; perhaps a willingness to be vulnerable. There might be a shyness, There might be, “I’m not used to sharing of myself.”—might be a little bit of a hiding like a shyness, but there’s a willingness to show up. [00:30:00] There’s an openness to show up; at least want to “want to” disclose and be vulnerable. It doesn’t mean that they have to share all their dark secrets with you straight away or at all during that time, but they’re willing to share and be open as much as it is possible for them at that time.
Now the second quality is being generous. That’s about participation. It’s about not holding; it’s about jumping in with both feet. It’s a responsiveness that the person has. You don’t feel that their heels are in the whole time. They’re generous with wanting to participate. There’s something about a wholeheartedness, a willingness at least, to be wholehearted, to bring their whole self. They’re generous with their time and the giving of themselves.
The big thing is, the person coming into the [00:31:00] exercises, but you’re listening to and hoping to notice Is if they want this, they want to discover more of God. You don’t get the idea that this person is just sitting in front of you [with arms crossed], “Now you have to convince me God is good.” There’s an openness There’s already a consolation—a drawing, a turning towards God that you are noticing and listening for.
Alright, so on that second level, you’re getting to know each other and you’re building rapport. So, you’re two individuals with different personalities and by the way, if you do know perhaps your own Enneagram type, and you’re familiar with that, and perhaps the person discloses their Enneagram type, sometimes those kind of things are helpful. Or other references, or other personality things that make sense of the world. Listen to how they are using words to describe [00:32:00] themselves and take notes.
Of course, it’s important for us also to have deep self-awareness, but this is about really understanding a bit of their context. And wow, you can do yourself so many favors for making a few notes in those disposition days. It is incredible how much somebody is giving of themselves, especially in the beginning as we’re getting to know each other.
They’re giving away little bits of pieces of information that can really help you with contextualization or again with the discernment. Things like, “yes, I don’t really have a relationship with my mother, and I feel a bit uncomfortable in my own skin,” but, and then they just continue. It’s just little bits of information, not necessarily to do with, but just to remember, take note of.
It’s also about listening to the language that they use. It’s always our job to meet them where they [00:33:00] are. It’s not about, “hey, here’s my set of language, here you go, poof.” No. It’s about meeting them where they are; what language are they using to describe themselves, God, the world around them. They’re giving us so many clues.
And then of course, you’re getting to know the dynamic between each other. Sometimes it’s practicalities like, are you going to meet in person or online or both? And what works? You’re also for your own self, thinking about what are the things you want to put in place for a session? Do you want to light a candle? Do you want to start in silence? It’s getting to know your rhythm together. And of course, sometimes it’s about sharing a bit about yourself as well. So, that is especially important in the beginning, to say a little bit about who you are, and what does this mean for you, and why is this important to you, but to also remember [00:34:00] that this is not a mutual disclosure time.
All right, moving right along—the third one. We are listening to and noticing in the person their life with God. Now what we mean by that is we’re noticing what is the interaction like with them and God. What is that relationship like? What are the words they use? Perhaps listen a little bit to the image of God that we spoke about last week. What are the words they use? How is God active? What is their awareness like with God’s movement in their life? What are the words, perhaps, that they use to describe themselves? Is there something about their identity they’re giving away?
And then also really practical things about what are you hearing when they talk about how they pray? Are they reflective? [00:35:00] Do they journal? Do they use imagery? What is important to them? In terms of their relationship with God, sometimes the person will also bring in perhaps their specific denomination. Now there your ear should also go “hmmm, that’s interesting.” I’m going to note it. I’m not going to put it in a box and say, “Oh, I know, Lutherans.” I’m not going to do that, but I’m going to take note and perhaps I can then wonder with them what role liturgy plays in their life. You want to get to know it in a way that is so honoring to them. You’re curious, you’re cheering them on. This is a time you’re setting the atmosphere of your time.
So, when I move over to the practical stuff, the life and the prayer rhythms and cultivating space, I [00:36:00] really want to encourage you to remember wonder—that all of this listening, especially this dynamic between them and God, how do they usually connect? When do they feel close to God? For you to have such a posture of wonder in that time and for real to pray for wonder for yourself, if you’re not feeling it. To just know, wow, I get to listen to this person, and they have this beautiful, unique connection with God, and I get to listen in, and ask expansive questions, and tell me a bit more, and when do you feel close to God, and what do you sense God is up to? Oh, beautiful questions.
And then, it is our job. This is a little bit our “coachy” hat, and then after that you throw away that hat; then it doesn’t belong in the giving of the exercise anymore. But you can [00:37:00] put your coach hat a little bit on, like half maybe. This is our time to help the person create a regular. So, we want them to build up to one prayer session that’s more or less 45 minutes to an hour, with another one later the day of about 10 to 15 minutes with the examen in it.
Now you know, there are many little elements. in that outline of prayer and we will get to it. So don’t worry. We know if you can remember, there are things like becoming present, the act of the presence, the grace, the prayer, the colloquy.
There are things like a review—how does the examen look again? Don’t worry, we’re gonna get to it. We’re gonna get to it. But it’s your job to help them make a bit more space. If you meet somebody and they have the deepest desire to participate in the exercises, [00:38:00] but they’re only praying 15 minutes a day at the moment or every other day, then your first job is to get a regular or a rhythm. Help them to establish that and then we can move on. Again, not overwhelmed. Otherwise, we’re going to pull a muscle.
So, another practical point in their spaciousness and cultivating space is also who is their support? We encourage you to ask them who perhaps can pray for you in a particular way and during this time, just as a, another crowd of witnesses cheering you on, and perhaps also some practicalities with family members or any person you’re sharing space with to almost negotiate time a bit.
I just recently supervised somebody [00:39:00] who—and this is quite the exception for a young mother. So, she had a baby, but she negotiated that time with her husband to say, is it possible during this time, during the day, here’s the bottle, here’s the everything, can I have this time? So sometimes it needs to be really negotiated especially if a house is busy. If there are kids involved or somebody maybe needs caring, there needs to be a bit of negotiation and part of our little coach hat is to help them figure those things out as well as physical space.
Wow, physical space plays a big role. What can you maybe place in your space? Where is a place that’s truly private that you can go or be and feel safe, not restricted and won’t be interrupted. What can you place in that space that will be [00:40:00] meaningful for you? So, all of those beautiful things. I love it and that is just helping them figure it out a little and those things can be in conversation and again, we get to learn so much about them.
Now, in this time learning about their relationship with God, I want you to also just extra listen without any judgment or creating a growth plan for them. Just listen. If there’s perhaps a tendency to keep things in the head; perhaps overthinking, over intellectualization; and they give you the meaning of the scripture, but it’s tough to hear the emotive side sometimes. Just make a note. There’ll be more chats about it, and sometimes you can even hear something about spirituality that feels a bit like not talking to God about all my [00:41:00] life, but just like God will sort it out and it’s fine. So just listen to perhaps what are they talking to God about? Yeah, does it have an earthy feel, a hearty feel, or does it feel a bit disconnected? Again, remember you’re simply starting a journey. They’re not supposed to do all the prayer and have it all sorted out.
I’m still learning. All right. The fourth thing to listen to is capacity. Now, one of the people who trained me; her name is Frances. She calls this a robustness. I love that. To have a bit of robustness. Now again, I am willing to bet there’s a few folk here who always fights for the underdog. So, I’m not saying, “Listen, that person must have perfect capacity.” All right? We all are a bit broken—a hundred percent, but there must be a little bit of [00:42:00] emotional, psychological space, a bit of robustness to be able to see this thing through because it is a big, big commitment.
Even if a type of a physical capacity, if somebody perhaps is truly, truly very ill, a lot of adaptation will have to happen, and we would recommend I think perhaps not starting with somebody who takes a lot of adaptation. Let’s just see signs of robustness for a particular season—a willingness or ability to be able to talk about it.
Again we, grow in it and we’re looking for perhaps something that’s not a gaping wound. If somebody has just gone through a trauma, a big trauma, it’s very, very hard to have capacity. So again, it’s not a judgment. So, it’s not, “I have to fight for this person that they would be able to do [00:43:00] the exercises but it’s more of a, “I have such a belief in you.” We don’t want to put a burden on any person. So, an emotional capacity in the sense that there isn’t perhaps counseling needed at the moment. If you feel, and your supervisor will also help you listen to this. If a person is currently going through or perhaps working through some deep trauma still, sometimes there isn’t capacity to take on even such a big thing as the exercises, such a big commitment, just because there’s already a lot happening.
So again, they’re not disqualified. Do you guys hear what I’m saying? It’s not a test. It’s about discernment. Is this the right thing at the right time?
All right. Now, prayer fitness and skills. I’ve kind of mentioned this already. It is about building fitness. It takes a bit [00:44:00] of time to expand the time of prayer to kind of live into the type of prayer. That’s where only half that coach hat is on. Sometimes we have to introduce somebody to some of the prayer forms that are part of the exercises. Perhaps they’ve never done an examen before. Perhaps they’ve never done an imaginative prayer before or gospel contemplation. It is our job to just kind of, just very gently, introduce, let them experience.
You can be creative in this time. I want to really encourage you to play. I want to encourage you to play. Perhaps at some stage you can give them an image, a visual Divina to pray with, and just see their reaction. It’s your time to get to know them. It’s also a time to just notice their ability to kind of stay in prayer, and that’s also a little bit expanded.
[00:45:00] Perhaps do one or two journaling exercises, the art of reflection, learning how to reflect, learning how to articulate the inner life. Perhaps they’ve been in spiritual direction already for a long time, but perhaps they haven’t. Disposition Days helps us to learn a little bit how it is to talk about our inner life and it’s quite a thing if we haven’t done it before, then it can feel quite exposing. So, it’s a little bit of a warmup you can feel. It’s also a time for us to introduce a little bit of the language of the exercises, because things like colloquy could sound a bit strange. So, it’s for us to slowly introduce, gently take our time, just the concept and use language that makes sense.
Lastly, but super importantly; I [00:46:00] know that’s not a word—the foundational experience of love. We cannot start with the exercises if we do not feel this in our bones, if that is not a soaked through, fresh, felt, known experience for our exercitant. Love shows up in many different ways. We are, again, such cheerleaders of the person in front of us. We’re ready to believe the best in them. We are cheering them on and in that time, we’re giving them different exercises, and we’re just now going to talk about what do we give them, but we are really hoping, and we’re giving them the grace to pray for deep, felt experience, a fresh experience of God’s love for me. And that can play out in [00:47:00] the history of my life as well as currently, but it’s that felt knowing—that Hebrew word Yadah, for those who know that word.
It’s more than a Bible study. I think we know that. It’s something you almost can’t predict or fake. It’s just a fresh revelation. It’s a deep consolation and it comes to each person in a way that is sometimes surprising, and we want to build on that foundation and sometimes that is a key reason why we linger before we start formally with the BNF in week one, because we feel that this foundation just needs a bit more soaking, a bit more. This belovedness— [00:48:00] Isn’t this something that just needs fresh and fresh and again and again affirmation in our lives? We just never outgrow this belovedness—this affirmation of love.
Without this foundation, you can imagine where week one goes. It can easily go askew or can influence the way I hear God. So, my own belovedness is so linked to my image of God and we know this in our bones. So, the prayer material and the sessions on a very practical level, what do you give them?
Well, you build it up. Perhaps the first week you can give somebody the examen, or just the act of the presence, and you linger there. Perhaps you can start with their favorite scriptures. They are very beautiful, beloved scriptures. I think we know them from Psalm 23 to Romans 8. Some beautiful imagery that shows [00:49:00] belovedness. Perhaps they can come up with an image. How do you feel God shows God’s love? And then one of the prayer contents, usually in the disposition days, is this beautiful giving and praying through my faith history. Not in a way like “this happened to me, and this didn’t happen to me” and not a life story. That’s not what we’re after. We are interested in how did God show up. How was God present without us even knowing it?
And we’ll talk about resources and there are quite a few beautiful resources out there to help us give this to them. Just hear about their faith history. We grow into that format of prayer that again; we will hand we will get to in greater depth.
Biggest thing; don’t overwhelm. Take it slow, meet them where they’re at, at their pace, [00:50:00] and then develop that rapport that makes it not feel like homework. So you get different personalities, and if you’re a little bit like me, you might feel like you have to do, even if that person says it’s not homework, you feel you have to get to everything, but we have to meet people with, or you have another personality where they are like, “Oh, just, sorry, I just didn’t get to it.” Every week it’s I didn’t get to it. That is why we have supervision on each other.
Discerning when or if to formally start. How do we know? Well, you already know in summary the foundational experience of love in their being—in their being. There’s openness, there’s generosity, there’s deep desire, and then it’s practically possible. I can’t exaggerate this enough. Honestly, if you’re going through a super busy time, very often that becomes the horse pulling the person’s [00:51:00] life; It’s hard. We have to try and discern, is it now? Practically possible to make this big commitment? And that’s the same, even more so for a 30-day enclosed retreat. Is it practically possible to make this the key journey for the next year?
And of course, it’s not necessarily advisable if there’s ten things going on. I’m studying this, and I’m on a counseling course, and I’m doing coaching. It’s just a bit too much—the spaciousness. This becomes the main horse pulling the cart of my life. That’s in summary. But we’re listening for, how do I know? They’re like, okay, nice, Adri-Marie, those five things, I get it.
But how do I know? This is where this mystery of the dynamics starts getting in. You will feel—you’ll [00:52:00]feel the person almost starts talking, just this gratitude for God’s love, and they almost naturally want to go, and surrender a few things. There’s a momentum. There’s an opening that you will feel in your bones.
I know you’re like, thanks, that is not very specific at all. You will see it. You will hear it. You will feel it in your bones. You felt the deep love and now you can feel the readiness. It almost feels like you’re holding this person back a little bit by giving them still the same grace. Then you will feel.
But please. My last few comments. Please take your time. Please take your time. You will not be sorry for taking your time. And this is not just a once off conversation, and [00:53:00] during the first conversation of disposition days, you both decide, yes, this seems right, let’s go.
The whole of the disposition days, as we are living into it, we’re almost still deciding. You get to have, it’s not a once off conversation. You get to discern almost the whole time. Yes, right in the beginning, does this seem right? Do we want to go ahead? Do I seem right to you? And again, you also can discern, if you feel, “oh no, there’s something about it, but I don’t feel I need to take this person to do the exercises. I can’t explain it, but they really want to.” You will also pull a muscle, and you will cause yourself an injury. You also need to discern from your side; does this seem right? It’s a co- discernment. [00:54:00]
I want to remind you that doing the spiritual exercises is an incredible, incredibly beautiful gift, but let’s honor that gift by really taking it extra serious to discern if it’s the right thing at the right time. It is not a special achievement or a cherry on top. It’s just something that is a beautiful, beautiful gift. And so even within your own discernment now, you’re going to meet somebody and maybe they’re the person you want to take them. You want to ask if they’re interested in exercises? You’ll feel that pull because you need somebody to take through the exercises for this experience, this learning, but to really truly discern, is this the right thing for this person at this particular time?
That’s why we have supervision. How long does it take? [00:55:00] It takes as long as it takes. It takes as long as it takes. Friends, I finished in time. I feel like I did a whoop.
Annemarie: Fantastic. Thank you, Adri-Marie. Spot on time, exactly. So, let’s take 15 minutes now to go into the groups. The questions are in the chat and to take some time to share those after you’ve had a bit of a break to think about it. So, we’ll come back for our groups at quarter past the hour. We’ll see you then. You[00:56:00]
[Break]
Adri-Marie: There we go. I think we are all back now. So, I am wondering about your wonderings. We’d love to hear a bit how the conversations went; are there any questions? As always, you are welcome to comment in the chat box, if you want to put a question there, or a wondering, or you can raise your hand, or wave, somebody will see you.
It would just be really good to hear a bit of your wondering, some of your conversation, and perhaps if there are any specific questions, we’ll try our best.
Luckily, we’re also the type of people who can sit in silence, so I never am overly worried in a group like this. If it’s silent, let’s enjoy [00:58:00] it. We’re just together, Get to know your colleagues’ facial expressions, but we would also love to hear some wonderings. And if it’s quiet for a very long time, I’ll just invite some of the mentors to also give us a glimpse. MaddyChristine
MaddyChristine: I always seem to have a question.
Adri-Marie: Wonderful.
MaddyChristine: So, it’s on the practical side, if that’s okay.
Adri-Marie: Wonderful.
MaddyChristine: What I am wondering, right; people are paying to meet with us. I can imagine it’s quite a financial investment because we’re meeting weekly. So, I can imagine that someone would want to get going with this. And if they linger in the disposition days, it means that it’s going to cost them more. Does that ever come up [00:59:00] that someone is concerned about that—that somebody is really wanting to move forward. And we, especially when we are realizing there’s not that sense of God’s love, we just can’t move forward. Has that ever happened?
Adri-Marie: Aha. Great. Thank you. Thank you so much for that. I’m very sure half of the class is now wondering what? Are you charging for this? So that’s also normal. As givers of the exercises, that is a big practical question to consider in terms of will there be a money exchange involved or not?
So again, that is such a personal journey. A lot of givers charge for their spiritual direction, but not for the giving of the exercises. Some just say, I’m going to charge my normal spiritual direction fee, which is still monthly, [01:00:00] but I’m going to see you more. Some just say there’s no charge involved. If you feel like giving a gift in the end, you’re so welcome. Then we are gracious receivers. So that is a quite a tricky territory for yourself to figure out. A money exchange, I think is always just helpful to remember what are we contracting for? I think it needs to be very clear.
What is the expectation? Is there a willing person or not? Personally, I have never asked money for the exercises. I’ve now for the first time said it’s my own spiritual direction monthly fee. So, different people go about it differently. If you are somebody who has a certain fee for an amount of sessions, then just be very conscious of the exchange. Money always brings a transaction into [01:01:00] it, and just stick to your guns.
I would say, really, it’s about being, again, faithful to what the exercises are and that’s why supervision is so helpful. In my supervision sessions, I always tell folks, listen, confession is welcome. Please confess a little in your supervision session, you say, phew, I’m currently feeling the pressure because there’s a financial exchange and then your supervisor can just talk you through it. Our commitment is to the faithfulness of the exercises. I think supervision has taught me more about the disposition days than doing the disposition days myself because as a supervisor, I can see what happens later on the exercises if that foundation isn’t there.
At some stage, either the energy runs out kind of because the desire runs out or you hit a wall in [01:02:00] terms of that foundational love experience or the image of God or just the person doesn’t have the time anymore because the discernment and the commitment towards time wasn’t there. I think how you word it probably is going to make all the difference or perhaps you can discern that you can maybe start charging from Principle and Foundation. Perhaps that is something to consider. It’s not something I’ve really encountered. I wonder—the rest of my team—what are some thoughts?
Brenda: So, Adri-Marie, I work through a retreat center, so they refer people to me for exercises and that’s how we work. So, they make a deposit for the disposition days. We take as long as we need to take. But the other thing that is different is that their payment is for the exercises as a whole, whether it takes the nine months or the 12 months or the 15 months. Their agreement is for the whole period.
So, I’m not [01:03:00] under pressure. That’s the time and that is helpful. I’m not charging everyone for every session, and we have an agreement. It also helps if someone else is doing the money side.
Adri-Marie: That’s very helpful. Thanks, Brenda.
Annemarie: And I think whatever you agree in terms of payment needs to be something that’s sustainable for the person that’s not going to put them under huge financial pressure. So, I would say to the person, look, this is something that’s going to take as long as it takes. It may take a year. It may take longer than that, depending on how things unfold. And sometimes also saying at the end of the disposition days, we’ll revisit this and see, is this the right time just to really make sure we discerned well together.
But I think also when you’re in a learning process, we would generally recommend that you don’t charge that you, if possible, let this be a space [01:04:00] in which you’re gaining experience; you’re learning how to do this. So, we’re not saying you may not charge, but we’re saying we recommend that, while you take your first person, at least through the exercises, maybe to consider if it’s possible for you not to do that because it does add another level of complexity that maybe isn’t helpful.
Adri-Marie: Just want to check if Trevor, you’d like to add something?
Trevor: I’m happy not to add anything to what’s been said If there is a cost, I would lean towards the option of a cost for disposition days and for the exercises as one amount or two separate amounts. I would lean in that direction if I were to charge.[01:05:00]
Adri-Marie: Thank you, Trevor. And if you need out, there’s many more questions, please do write them down. The most important part is that we learn, and we say yes to this response to be a giver of the exercises and then we can find a way in the giving.
Beth: Thank you for the lesson today, Adri-Marie. It was really wonderful. My question is around when you said we should role play to find our words to describe the exercises. I wonder if you would share your description with us. Just trying to find my own words, it’d be helpful to hear how other people have described them.
Adri-Marie: Thank you for that, and I’m definitely going to ask my fellow facilitators to also do that. So, it happened to be that every person thus [01:06:00] far I’ve guided has not been from a Catholic tradition. So, I’ve had to really start from an approach that perhaps they come to me, and I’ve already been in spiritual direction with them. So quite a few of the people I’ve taken through have been in spiritual direction with me. and then in a natural place, they would perhaps say something like “no, I’m just looking for something more, et cetera.” And then I would say, “there’s a particular journey that I myself undertook that is a very special—it’s almost a once in a lifetime opportunity or experience where you take an extra amount of time and commitment and focus and really the focus of it is to learn. You use various forms of prayer and just connect deeper with the person of Jesus, and it has this long story that’s [01:07:00] coming 400 years already. There was a person called Ignatius of Loyola and he had this beautiful life experience, and through his life experience, he discovered the movements of how does God work, how do I discern God’s voice and movement and action in my life, and he wrote up this thing called the Spiritual Exercises.
So, it’s been happening for a long period of time for 400 years and a group of us have all over the world learned how to give this, so I’m also a giver of the exercises. Usually, it’s that kind of angle or somebody would come to me that heard from somebody else or is recommended by perhaps a community that does the spiritual exercises, so then they already know a little bit about it.
So, it’s very few times that I have to do a blanket explanation. Sometimes it’s just they already heard something, but that first time around usually to get your first person [01:08:00] you have to explain a little bit, but very often somebody has heard already or has been recommended and then you almost just have to do a retelling, but I always enjoy also using language that that person uses so, and even within their reference.
But I’m definitely going to ask my fellow facilitators to give it a go too.
Trevor: Beth, I sometimes find it helpful just to ask the person do you have some questions that you would like to ask? I don’t make any assumptions about what they know or don’t know, but they have come to do the exercises, and I simply open up space for them to ask any question that they would like about the exercises, about how they came to be, or about Ignatius. And sometimes, but not all the time if there’s [01:09:00] particular interest around Ignatius, I’ve encouraged folk to read his autobiography through the disposition days.
Annemarie: I would agree with what’s been said. I’ve also used those kinds of means. I think sometimes people have never heard of the exercises and don’t know that they want to ask about the exercises. And in that case, often when someone is with me in direction and they say something about, I’m really needing to figure out what God is inviting me to do in this next big moment of my life.
Often that’s a moment where I might be thinking in my own mind, I wonder whether the exercises might be a good fit for this person. And then I might say “You know, I’m just thinking about what you’re wanting to do. You’re saying you’re looking for some kind of process that would help you to engage this decision and there is a process that is really helpful for that. [01:10:00]
Then I would tell them a little bit about that process and how it works practically. We would meet once a week over the course of nine months to a year, more or less. I would give them material to pray with every day, and they would need to have enough time to be able to do that; and that it would move through a particular dynamic. It would move through a journey. I would say something about the fact that everyone makes it differently. It’s a unique experience, but you go through a particular process that is very helpful in terms of both deepening relationship with God and making big decisions in life.
So, there would be something of that. If someone comes and they already have a sense, or they’re saying, I want to make the exercises. Then as Trevor says, I would ask quite a lot of questions, like what do you understand about the exercises and, then invite them to ask me questions, because sometimes people think they know [01:11:00] what the exercises are about, but what they have in their mind is very different than the process that I understand the exercises to be. Those would be two things.
I also find there’s a resource, which I can send to you in John Veltry’s book called something like a Letter from Ignatius to a Retreatant and it’s a kind of a letter poem kind of thing that really talks about the process of the 19th annotation retreat, the role of the director, the role of the retreatant, and I could find that a way of getting into that conversation. I would send it to them to mull over and read through and then say, “Well, how was it looking at that? Do you have any questions?” And sometimes that’s a wonderful springboard for that conversation.
Brenda: I think the thing that I would just add all the same that everyone’s saying, but the thing that stands out for me is that [01:12:00] conversation, especially with people who have had some exposure. I’ve had retreatants who’ve read O’Brien’s book, so they think they know what the exercises are. I often have to just help and go from my perspective, this is what we’re looking at, or these are some of the things that might be different. Explain or help open up so that people are not surprised if things don’t feel exactly the same as what they’re expecting. So that would be my one addition.
Adri-Marie: Thanks, everyone. That first bit, and I think we’ve mentioned it before, Disposition days is probably the most you as a giver will speak in the whole of the exercises because there’s quite a bit of explanation at times, but it will decrease as the [01:13:00] Disposition days go on, but just because there’s a bit of instruction or sometimes unpacking of a word. It’s okay to check again and to find words that, as you get to know their vocab, words that seem to make sense.
I think often language has its own character in all of this. So, just always check a bit the meaning, what is understood, what do they mean by a certain word, what do you mean by a certain word. Imagine using the word contemplation. That already can fall on different ears in different ways. Be leisurely in your time and understanding.
Any wonderings or sharings—we’d love to hear some more. Yeah, Shelley, thank you.
Shelley: I’m kind of pondering. The conversations we’re having with people now who might want [01:14:00] to go through the exercises, could I think of that in almost a mini disposition days? You know, that’s how it feels—the conversations I’m having with folks about whether this is the right time to even think about going through the exercises, right? Does that seem reasonable?
Adri-Marie: Yeah, for sure. Disposition is about discernment and then preparation. So, both and, so it’s a bit of a feeling, a sensing, a mutual discernment. I think pacing ourselves with it. Good. Yeah! So, as we continue, it becomes a more real preparation, more formal if I understood you correctly. Annemarie.
Annemarie: It’s almost a predisposition days. Yeah.
Adri-Marie: Yeah. Lovely.[01:15:00] Perhaps I can ask a question and see some body responses. Are you feeling a little bit like this is starting to make a bit more sense? [Shakes her head up and down for “yest” and back and forth for “no.”] Yeah, that’s classic. We should have definitely used that part of the recording and some kind of combine it with a song or something. John.
John: Yes, I just I mentioned this in our group, but having not had the disposition days like this when I went through the program, it is so generous and hospitable, and I think it [01:16:00] it feels so right. And anyway, well done. And I think it’s making an emphasis in the program and is really classy and really wise, so thank you.
Adri-Marie: Thank you, John. I love the word hospitable that you used. That’s actually such a special key to the disposition days and its flavor. It’s welcoming somebody to the house of the exercises and learning to be a good host. Yeah, thank you for that addition. Nada.
Nada: Okay thank you, Adri-Marie. What stood out to me tonight, and I shared this in my group as well, was the aspects of the preparation time, both from the retreatant and of the accompanier. Both have this great opportunity to get to know one another and the listening that the [01:17:00] accompanier does. It feels like a lot of clues that you are getting.
So, the relational aspect of the Disposition days makes it a bit different. I just see it in a different light. It’s not this formal or steps that have to be completed, but really, and just to take John’s word, hospitable like around the fire, drinking a glass of wine, but not going that far, but you’re getting the idea.
Adri-Marie: Yeah. Lovely. It really sets the feel for the exercises, and as you build rapport, our exercitants or the folk who we take through the exercises, for them to feel with you how much you are cheering them on, how much you are in wonder of what God is up to. It’s such a [01:18:00] different mode for most folks to go through because very often in the Christian life, it’s about question/answer, or you know a lot and I must know as much as you versus somebody just holding space, being in wonder, meeting you where you’re at. It just has a different feel, and we will co do-discern—is this the right thing at the right time? Not are you ready? I’m not sure if you got your all together. It’s just a different feel. Thanks for that, Nada. Heather.
Sorry, let me just pause and just ask if Annemarie or Trevor or Brenda wanted to add something. Okay. Now they’re shaking their heads. Heather, go for it.
Heather: Thank you. I was just wondering if you could maybe help me out. Somebody asked me what i[01:19:00] course are you doing? So, I was just explaining a little bit about the exercises, and she showed an interest. And so, we’ve had a little bit of a conversation, but then she threw a curveball about a week ago and she’s immigrating.
And so, that would be coming like later in the year and I’m just wondering. I know there’s Zooms. She’s going to Australia or thinking of going to Australia. Now I’m a little bit unsure. I’m thinking, do I just leave the conversation because I know we did it.
We are speaking with people in America and all that, but I’m just wondering. I’ve realized how intimate and beautiful when I did the exercises; it was so personal and I’m not sure that it will work or not. So that was that’s my concern. I don’t know whether to pursue the conversation. So….
Adri-Marie: Lovely. That’s a [01:20:00] lovely question for supervision in general. I think I’ll give you two thoughts and open it up for the facilitators too. It is possible if the desire is strong enough. The desire is the fuel and if there’s openness. The practicality in this case might be the difficulty.
It is surely possible if the person really has a very deep desire. I once guided somebody through an immigration time, but it does and will take more time. There are some disruptions involved. So, I think I would just bring it back to the desire. And in the beginning, it’s very good to let the person give some explanation and let them contact you as well so that the initiative feels to the person from their side.
So that choosing part, that they are really feeling that they’re choosing, but it is big life changes that will disrupt [01:21:00] the normal daily life. Giving the exercises does make for disruption and we have to adapt. I think if she knows already, she’s immigrating next week, then surely the timing might be off.
But I think it’s again, listening to those basics that I would wonder deeply about the desire. Yeah!
Annemarie? Brenda? Trevor?
Annemarie: I don’t know, Heather, if you were partly thinking about is it possible to do this on Zoom as the other aspect of your question or not. But maybe just to say something about that in case that’s something that other people are wondering about.
I think we’ve discovered that you can accompany people quite effectively actually on Zoom, that that in itself is not a barrier. Obviously, it’s easier if you’ve already had face to face contact and you know the person, but even if you haven’t, it’s still possible to do that in a way that is very rich and deep.
I think as Adri-Marie was saying that the [01:22:00] key issue here is—is the timing right? And needing to discern that and the desire aspect, because unless there is very strong desire and other good reason for it to be now, the timing may not be the best. It may be better to wait until that person’s a little bit settled in their new space for them to have the bandwidth to be able to really give time and space to the journey.
Heather: Thank you.
Trevor: I don’t have anything to add to what’s been said. I think the emphasis on desire and longing, but I feel an inner concern around the trauma and upheaval of immigration and really wonder whether one can, through that process [01:23:00] of immigration keep. . . I don’t know why I just feel an inner caution about that.
Heather: I think that was what it was with me. Having immigrated many years ago, I remember how traumatic it was, and so I think that’s my concern. Thanks.
Adri-Marie: Yeah; lovely supervision. Maria,
Maria: My comment ties back to just the value of the discernment disposition days. I thought someone in my small group said something that I thought was really helpful and that it’s kind of like getting married without dating or getting a mail order bride. It’s just let’s get this going, okay. I thought that was just very helpful to put it into a context of something that maybe many of us are [01:24:00] familiar with. Yeah.
Adri-Marie: Excellent. Excellent. I’ll remember that example. Any last comment or wondering? Nada.
Nada: I really didn’t mean to speak twice tonight.
Adri-Marie: That’s all right.
Nada: But I thought just to add my own experience doing the 19th annotation was via Zoom and I only met my spiritual companion once in the entire time in person, and it was a very, very rich, and deep and very special journey.
To me, the technology that’s available to us these [01:25:00] days, really, God works in mysterious ways with it. It doesn’t seem like it, it doesn’t feel like it maybe. My own experience showed that it’s very doable.
Adri-Marie: Thank you, Nada. Perhaps as we are starting to land, there’s one encouragement I would still like to leave with you, and that’s really to consider your own preparation. How is it that you would like to be prepared as a giver of the exercises? As we are thinking about how to give the different prayers and talk about it, but perhaps how are some ways that we are making space for our own preparation for the time, because it does take time. It takes quite a lot of time to prepare. [01:26:00]
Where could we perhaps have some special time to pray for the person that we are walking with? How could we prepare for supervision or build in time to reflect on the time? So, as we are thinking about this word of preparation and discernment, what are some ways that are precious to you? Like maybe there’s a habit you’d like to start in terms of just before you start the zoom call, you’d like to light a candle or do a sign of a cross or maybe consider small things to build into your own way of being as a giver of the exercises.
I wonder if there are some closing encouragements also from Annemarie, Trevor, Brenda? I think Brenda’s had to go. I[01:27:00]
Trevor: I think my deepest encouragement is, it does take time, and I think that when I reflect on maybe what I feel, where I feel I’ve let people down is where I never trusted my own sense around readiness. And so, I’m learning to trust quite deeply my own sense whether this person is ready or not.
I do regret one or two times when I glossed over my own inner concern around a person. And so, I’m learning to verbalize my concern with the person if I sense they are not ready and to do that in a way that keeps doors open and doesn’t judge or evaluate [01:28:00] that person in any way. So, I find it very tricky, but I do find it very, very important.
Adri-Marie: Thanks, Trevor.
Annemarie: Yeah, I would strongly echo what Trevor has just said. The other thought that I had is it’s really important to maybe remember in these disposition days, especially what we did last week as well around image of God. That’s really just trying to listen very deeply for what’s going on in terms of how this person sees God, experiences God, and working with that in the disposition days. We’ve already mentioned that I just strongly encourage you just to hold that as something that’s really quite key in this time.
Adri-Marie: I’ll hand [01:29:00] over to Annemarie soon to do a closing prayer for us. I think if we can in some way commit to each other tonight to not feel the rush of the disposition days. As you may be in supervision, sometimes you’re going to be like, “oh, the other person is already in week one,” and you’re going to hear yourself say, “I’m behind.” You’re not behind. Every person rewrites the exercises. You’re not behind, you’re not ahead.
Don’t worry. That person might get stuck there in week two; then you’ll catch up. It’s not like that. Okay? Please, that’s not the language we use in giving the exercises. You’re not behind, it’s about faithfulness. And if you do start guiding somebody and they stay in the disposition days or stop after the disposition days and that’s a [01:30:00] real discernment, it’s a good thing. If it’s discerned, it’s worth celebrating.
Doing the exercises isn’t about, “oh, they failed,” it’s about faithfulness and that you’ve guided them in a way that’s faithful, as far as that was required. So, all right. I’m going to remind you of that again and I hope that we will remind each other, if you catch somebody else saying, “Oh, I’m so behind. My person is still there.” You’re not behind. We’re just being faithful. We’re listening.
So. we will send that poem that we used at the beginning of the evening to you, as well as some of my scribbles, if that makes sense. Annemarie, over to you.
Annemarie: Thank you very much, Adri-Marie. [01:31:00] So let’s just take a moment to bring our time together to a close for today. So as usual, I invite you to sit comfortably. You may want to switch your video off if you prefer, and I’m going to, in a moment, read for us a prayer poem by a Jesuit, Theo de Chardin, called Patient Trust and I invite you just to listen to that and to allow it to maybe touch into some of that trusting the process that we’ve been talking about tonight and letting it take its time.
So, we just take a moment to be aware of the God who is attending to us, who has been attending to us this whole time and just to turn our gaze toward that loving God.[01:32:00]
Above all, trust in the slow work of God. We are quite naturally impatient in everything to reach the end without delay. We should like to skip the intermediate stages. We are impatient of being on the way to something unknown, something new. And yet it is the law of all progress. That it is made by passing through some stages of instability, and that it may take a very long time. And so, I think it is with you, your ideas mature gradually. Let them grow. Let them shape themselves without undue [01:33:00] haste. Don’t try to force them on as though you could be today. What time, that is to say grace and circumstances acting on your own goodwill, will make of you tomorrow. Only God could say what this new spirit gradually forming within you will be. Give our Lord the benefit of believing that his hand is leading you and accept the anxiety of feeling yourself in suspense. and incomplete. Above all, trust in the slow work of God.[01:34:00]
We make our prayer trusting in God as we say together, may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with us all evermore. Amen.
Go well, everyone, and we look forward to seeing you. Take care. God bless.